In the face of financial collapse - voters in Greece rejected a bailout because it cut entitlements....


The Greeks and the U.S. have similar issues going on. Entitlements and Pensions. We will be able to see who is correct- does debt matter. Not enough makers (workers paying taxes) and too many takers (being helped out by their government). Not enough reliance on self. Period.

The populations in both countries are aging rapidly. They are retiring earlier and earlier. There are fewer young people replacing them, as the birth rates are dropping. This results in more money being spent on retired workers than the new workers can add (through taxes) to the GDP.

We end up with spending more and taking in less (tax). Once a country can no longer support the national expenses for retirement and disability and health payments it has a serious debate on its hands. They must raise taxes on the new younger workers, as well as the older and much wealthier older workers. And or cut spending.

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As it inches closer to default and a potentially calamitous exit from the euro zone, the government has dismissed such demands as "absurd" or designed to pummel Greeks' morale.

To the lenders, the pension system is still too generous compared with what the country can afford. Greece spent 17.5 percent of its economic output on pension payments, more than any other EU country, according to the latest available Eurostat figures from 2012.

(For graphic on European pension expenditure, please click on http://link.reuters.com/pyb94w )

With existing cuts, this figure has since fallen to 16 percent.

However, one person familiar with the talks said wages and pensions together still eat up 80 percent of primary state spending, before debt servicing costs. "The remaining 20 percent is already cut to the bone, indeed too far," he said. "Civil servants have no pencils to write with, buildings in need of maintenance are crumbling. It's not possible to make public finances sustainable without working on wages and pensions."

Despite years of reforms, many Greeks can still retire early, especially workers in the public sector and professions classified as hazardous such as the army.

One high profile example is Fofi Gennimata, who became the leader of the opposition PASOK party last weekend. She is a former bank clerk with three children who applied for a pension last year aged just 51. Her office says she has stopped taking the pension payment since becoming a member of parliament.

Greece's state spending on pensions is three times' higher as a proportion than Germany's, and critics accuse Greece of wanting a soft life at somebody else's expense.

Sadly I fear the USA is not far behind. We are running down the same path quickly.

We are headed right down this road! Greece is the perfect example of what happens when you keep giving away more and more then try to correct it because it is killing the goose. I hope they get what they deserve out of all of this and I hope that possibly some people in this country see it and wake up. Eventually we will not be able to service the debt on the trillions of dollars we owe and I can only imagine the riots that will erupt when the folks on the public dole are told they will not get their "entitled" benefits.

Greece's issues starting to affect our stock market. Good luck to you guys in the oil business. Oil is gonna drop again as everyone panics, looks like.

Not going to be good with these blood suckers.

The whole oil industry just had a big pay shakedown including me. What was remarkable is that even though we didn't like it, we took it instride and made adjustments. We knew it was necessary in order to keep other fellow workers working. Those blood suckers will never take it that easy.

I know they didn't. The minions did it. I'm at the mercy of them and accept that in return for a paycheck.

You know that old saying "A Little is Better Than. None"