The GD juice dripping down his chin.
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| Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river http://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1227 |
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| Author: | mcseal2 [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
I started catfishing the Kansas river last year which is very shallow in places and sandy. I was using a Lowe 1440 with a 13hp longtail, it got me everywhere but not in a hurry. I want to upgrade to a 16-18ft boat at least 48" wide and be able to haul 12-1500lbs of people and gear an average of 20mph. I have only 1 ramp in nearly 40 miles of river so I need to be able to make long runs. Anyone who has run in these conditions advice would be appreciated. Thanks, Heath my email mcseal2@hotmail.com |
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| Author: | Gigafowl [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Well those loads will require a big boat and a 35hp motor... 18x48 might be too small to work.... 20x48 or wider... Square chines = more lift & more slide in turns Tapered or rolled chines = less lift & better turning Brinkleydog - has a huge Aucoin for sale in classifieds that is at a good price.... It would be a good choice for your needs... Motors - in "my opinion" summarized as follows Prodrive = by far easiest to drive, but has more trouble in sand, good at stump jumpin Gator Tail = still easy to drive, pretty good in sand, downside stump jumpin Go Devil = control is more manual -which is a good thing for "feel" of the bottom, excellent at jumpin stumps - has a slight advantage in sandy bottoms due to shaft length and 3 blade factory prop Sand is the devil - not much will match what your little boat with longtail and light loads could do.... Nuthin is gonna do well with 1500 lb load though in less than 5 inches with pure sand bottoms.... Bottom line - try them all in your area if you can - but there is NO substitute for horsepower - buy a big'un.... |
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| Author: | mcseal2 [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
I also have a Lowe 1648 that I have used the 13hp Scavenger on, I can go everywhere but not at more than 4.5-6mph upstream. Do you think I would be better off in the sand getting a big longtail? Also what prop type would you recommend for sand? |
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| Author: | JBREAUX [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
| Author: | Gigafowl [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Mcseal My 16x48 with 23 does 23mph solo - 19 with 2 and gear - but won't plane 3 and gear.... I have a 17x42 with 27 GDSD - too.... The longtail works better for me in the sand - cause I can slow down till the "vee" behind the boat converges at the end of the longtail and actually builds a little water column to use for the prop.... Can't do that with the shorter surface drives... But at least in sand - it is easy to pole or get out and push.... |
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| Author: | POKER1 [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Proper stump jumping is just having experience doing it. Momentom is key. I did it with my outboard for years. Same for sliding so don't be afraid of it. Its overstated by most. |
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| Author: | JBREAUX [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
| Author: | POKER1 [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
The GD juice dripping down his chin.
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| Author: | JBREAUX [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
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| Author: | Gigafowl [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Poker, All three have advantages over the other in certain applications... Trinity Bay where I run is mostly sand and oyster.... When we get in mud it is usually sandy mud over a hard sand bottom.... Logs everywhere.... The GD outnumbers the others here.... Gotta be a reason... Just gave the man "my opinion" thats all.... It ain't the bow it's the indian that matters - an experienced driver can make any of them work.... If the man can try all three he can tell what suits him best... |
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| Author: | Gigafowl [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Mcseal, 20x54 Aucoin with 36 Stage1 - Brinkleydog Over in the classifieds, I have seen that rig in action it is a sweet one and would carry that load you described.... |
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| Author: | JBREAUX [ Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Ignoring the question? Classy. 
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| Author: | Gigafowl [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
JBreaux, OK you asked - "giga not trying to start a pissing match but why do you say gator-tails downside is stump jumpin? just curious" Because - and this is my opinion - the GT is controlled by hydrolics and is less manual and is not balanced for easy manual lifting - but that is one of it's assets in other situations.... OK -now here comes trouble - a slightly negative GT comment Like I said earlier they all have assets over each other in different situations |
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| Author: | SwampSnyper [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
The best for sandy bottoms with a load is gonna be a long, wide tunnel hull boat with an outboard and a hydrolic jack plate. If you can't dig, no need for a mud motor. |
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| Author: | BROOKS [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
SwampSnypers is exactly rite !!!! If you gots to run 40 miles on the river I thank I would be lookin' at a 90hp Yamaha on a tunnel .. hydraulic jackin' plate with a big ice chest. But Hey ~ Infin' you awready have the long-tail you can still hang 'round this site !!!!!
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| Author: | Sand Man [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
This is the best thing I've found for shallow and sandy. It will run as fast as you can stand. |
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| Author: | JBREAUX [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
| Author: | mcseal2 [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
That airboat picture is right, the only other boat I see where I fish is an airboat, but I don't currently have the fishing budget for one of those. I have slowed my little boat down to let the longtail run in the wake before to get to one of the best spots about 4 miles above the ramp, up past where the guy with the 60 horse jet motor always turns around. I hate to try a new outboard where I run, all the guys running them are constantly replacing parts from sucking sand. I may just try a 27-31hp longtail on my 1648 and try to lighten my load as much as possible. I might just have to give up on the long runs, there is good water starting 1 mile above the ramp that just the airboat guy and I could reach last year, and it is much drier this spring. I will probably try to sell my 1440 and 13hp longtail anyway, I will list them in the classifieds. Thanks again for your help and feel free to let me know what you think of my idea. I have not run or been around any mud motors other than mine, I'm the only one close who has one. |
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| Author: | JBREAUX [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
If your constantly running shallow sand and you dont have the luxary of waiting for the tide to come up it would probaly be best to keep it as light as posibly for when you hit that sand bar that stops you dry especially if your mostly alone out there, 1648 with a 23 longtail would probaly be a good choice, handle an ok load and still realitivly light. Bigger boats are nice and "kewl" till you get stuck by yourself. Do you catch the catfish in that shallow of water out there? Rod and reel? or nets?? |
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| Author: | mcseal2 [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 11:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
We have caught cats in as little as 1ft of water, we mostly fish the holes though, 6-20ft deep. Anywhere we find 6ft of water with cover and a current break we generally have some luck. The problem I have is getting to the holes, many places the river is 400yds wide and 4-6"deep. Anywhere there is a bend you can usually find a channel to run but there are many riffles. I will try to load a pic of last springs catch from the week a friend of mine was back from Missouri. My 1648 has a hull weight of 300lbs so in ankle deep water I can usually get it wallowed around by myself if needed. There are some nice flathead there, we keep our catch in a cage until the end of the week for a fish fry and turn everything back the rest of the year. We always turn back anything above 15lbs hoping for more 40's and 50's. We use rod and reel all summer and setlines in May and June. |
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| Author: | Sand Man [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Sorry. The airboat was kind of a tongue in cheek comment. I've never run a longtail, but I'm told they do better with a shallow hard bottom or sand bottom than the short tails. My suggestion would be to stick with the longtail like you suggested in a 31HP or the largest they make. Go to a longer boat to offset that added weight on the transom to draft a little more shallow. I'd also go with a square chinned/slick hull as well. The slick hull will run better in the sand than those ribs on your lowe. It will also be easier to turn in the sand by yourself if you get stuck. The square chine won't turn real well, but it will draft more shallow. If I was in your situation, I'd do just what I described with an 1848 boat and longtail. Where are you located? I'm never too busy to come explore a new river and catch some fish in the airboat. 
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| Author: | mcseal2 [ Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
I live in Kansas right off I-70 between Topeka and Manhattan. If you get a chance to come this way let me know, Late May and early June are the best here. We caught 50 cats the last week of May last year, mostly 5-12lbs but we caught 3 20-25's and a couple 30's. Nothing really big, but they are there we just didn't get that lucky. |
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| Author: | drake1 [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
All in the indian and not the bow. I can run my 1854 with a 35 GTR in ankle deep water over sand and shell. Just need a good prop that keeps a bite with half of it or more out of the water. |
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| Author: | SwampSnyper [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Bow has a lot to do with it or they would only have one design of bow out there. |
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| Author: | muddoctor [ Wed Mar 25, 2009 2:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Help me pick a boat/motor for shallow sandy river |
Good ideas, it is all about trade offs when you are dealing with sand. Longtails might run it a bit better, but you will go slow and eat props like Russ eats sausages. Short tail will run faster on a good matched boat, but you can still eat props if not careful. Airboats are cool, but expensive to buy and run. Outboard with tunnel is fast and will go shallow, but set that baby down and it will be harder to get going. Tunnel/Jets are good, if you have all clean water. We have rigged both PD and Outboards on Phowlers, without tunnels and they do very well in the shallow sand, we have a couple rigs out your way in KS, you might want to hook up with one of our customers and run one for yourself. One has a Phowler rig, the other a PD MV rig. There is no one rig that can do it all, it just becomes a mater of looking at the pro's/con's and finding a set-up that will do what you expect it to do. Best to take the time and drive to a good dealer or find a customer close that you so you can demo a rig in similar conditions, then you know what to expect. Regardless of the boat, any boat sitting dead on the sand is going to be bugger to move, period. Good Luck, PW |
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