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 Looking for advice - Which way would you go 
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Post Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Looking to get more power and speed to carry a load on my 2060 Phowler. Currently have twin 36 prodrives Gen 3, stock engines with carb . Looking at one of three options, looking for opinions / advice and what you would do:

Option 1: Put new 40hp EFI power heads on - Probably about $8k total, get 3 year warranty?

Option 2: Do motor mods (need input on which ones and what cost would be)?

Option 3: Sell mud motors and put on 90hp outboard with jackplate?

Thoughts?


Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Well, what do you do with the boat?

I think you'd be in good shape with new power heads and new lower unit with the better gear ratio

But i'd also like the outboard route
that's a big boat

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Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
brycecheramie wrote:
Well, what do you do with the boat?

I think you'd be in good shape with new power heads and new lower unit with the better gear ratio

But i'd also like the outboard route
that's a big boat


Actually I would not get a whole new motor, just replace the vanguard powerhead, swap the 36 for the 40 and put on existing Gen 3. To expensive to buy brand new prodrive units.


Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:36 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Option 1 makes the most sense for cost, efficiency, simplicity, resale, warranty, etc. Plus, you can run a higher rpm to help speed with the Gen 3. ECU can be flashed to spin on up. They have a lot more torque than what you have now. Don't get hung up on it only being 4 more hp on paper. The 40 gains a lot more on the power curve.

Option 2 question, would you do the work or need someone else to do it? Could get more power than option one but no warranty and potential issues and limited to 4750 rpm on the coils.

Option 3 If you don't need a surface drive, could be an option but you're rigged for duals, factor in steering, throttle and controls modifications to swap. Could cost the most, I would go on up to a 115 if taking that route.

Option 4 wait a little longer, sell it and get a new Prodrive with duals that have FPR and instant reverse.

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Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Will wrote:
Option 1 makes the most sense for cost, efficiency, simplicity, resale, warranty, etc. Plus, you can run a higher rpm to help speed with the Gen 3. ECU can be flashed to spin on up. They have a lot more torque than what you have now. Don't get hung up on it only being 4 more hp on paper. The 40 gains a lot more on the power curve.

Option 2 question, would you do the work or need someone else to do it? Could get more power than option one but no warranty and potential issues and limited to 4750 rpm on the coils.

Option 3 If you don't need a surface drive, could be an option but you're rigged for duals, factor in steering, throttle and controls modifications to swap. Could cost the most, I would go on up to a 115 if taking that route.

Option 4 wait a little longer, sell it and get a new Prodrive with duals that have FPR and instant reverse.



My boat is being built right now, and it is taking everything in me to hold off on getting a prodrive now, and waiting for this. LOL I just hope it doesn't turn into a "Two Weeks" wait, like mudbuddy

OP, if new motors aren't an option, you need to figure out if you can go with an outboard. If you think sometimes you would need a mudmotor, then stay with your PD's and get new powerheads. IMO

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Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:22 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
I would personally modify what you currently have. Heads, cam, exhaust, and a Mikuni would wake those engines up and also be the cheapest option.

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Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:50 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
x2

Heads - depending on what you have and want are about $600 or so
Cam - about $300 - $350
Minuki setup or depending on what you have and want.

replacing the power head is going to do very very little with a gen 3 lower. Its just geared to low. Now load carrying capacity is a different story. Dual PD gen 3 lowers with heads and cam could haul whatever that boat can hold without sinking. Here is a very old pic from when I had my Briggs before kawi swap. Gen 2 lower which gen 3 will tote better load.

6 boxes of siding, 2x6's, compressor, generator, ladders, fuel, small ice chest, large ice chest, clothes for weekend of work. This boat was 19'8" x 48" bottom. heads, cam exhaust, mikuni would get up and run low mid 20's with that load. Oh and 2 grown guys. So your hull isn't much longer, will be wider thus draft less water and add another engine. No brainer, modify what you have.

Image


Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:49 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
banded-mallard wrote:
x2

Heads - depending on what you have and want are about $600 or so
Cam - about $300 - $350
Minuki setup or depending on what you have and want.

replacing the power head is going to do very very little with a gen 3 lower. Its just geared to low. Now load carrying capacity is a different story. Dual PD gen 3 lowers with heads and cam could haul whatever that boat can hold without sinking. Here is a very old pic from when I had my Briggs before kawi swap. Gen 2 lower which gen 3 will tote better load.

6 boxes of siding, 2x6's, compressor, generator, ladders, fuel, small ice chest, large ice chest, clothes for weekend of work. This boat was 19'8" x 48" bottom. heads, cam exhaust, mikuni would get up and run low mid 20's with that load. Oh and 2 grown guys. So your hull isn't much longer, will be wider thus draft less water and add another engine. No brainer, modify what you have.

Image



OK, so if I was going to mod, you mentioned Heads at $600, Cam at $300, how much more for Mikuni Carb, and exhaust? Assume all four would be needed to wake up the motor and get best performance? Lastly, where would you recommend getting the parts from?

Putting new power heads on gives me EFI which I thought would be a bonus being up north and we often hunt in below freezing weather, I don't have any experience with the Mikuni carb in those conditions.


Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
fishaholic82 wrote:
I would personally modify what you currently have. Heads, cam, exhaust, and a Mikuni would wake those engines up and also be the cheapest option.



So what is the cost for all of this?


Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:09 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
banded-mallard wrote:
x2

Heads - depending on what you have and want are about $600 or so
Cam - about $300 - $350
Minuki setup or depending on what you have and want.

replacing the power head is going to do very very little with a gen 3 lower. Its just geared to low. Now load carrying capacity is a different story. Dual PD gen 3 lowers with heads and cam could haul whatever that boat can hold without sinking. Here is a very old pic from when I had my Briggs before kawi swap. Gen 2 lower which gen 3 will tote better load.

6 boxes of siding, 2x6's, compressor, generator, ladders, fuel, small ice chest, large ice chest, clothes for weekend of work. This boat was 19'8" x 48" bottom. heads, cam exhaust, mikuni would get up and run low mid 20's with that load. Oh and 2 grown guys. So your hull isn't much longer, will be wider thus draft less water and add another engine. No brainer, modify what you have.

Image
You're missing the higher rpm equation for the 40's to help the Gen 3, modding will still be limited to 4750 with no warranty.
Current prices to mod are close to this (per engine)
Worked heads $700
cam $350
Worked intake $100
Mikuni kit $850
gaskets $65
Exhaust $400-$700
Labor around $1000

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Wed Jan 15, 2020 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Will wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
x2

Heads - depending on what you have and want are about $600 or so
Cam - about $300 - $350
Minuki setup or depending on what you have and want.

replacing the power head is going to do very very little with a gen 3 lower. Its just geared to low. Now load carrying capacity is a different story. Dual PD gen 3 lowers with heads and cam could haul whatever that boat can hold without sinking. Here is a very old pic from when I had my Briggs before kawi swap. Gen 2 lower which gen 3 will tote better load.

6 boxes of siding, 2x6's, compressor, generator, ladders, fuel, small ice chest, large ice chest, clothes for weekend of work. This boat was 19'8" x 48" bottom. heads, cam exhaust, mikuni would get up and run low mid 20's with that load. Oh and 2 grown guys. So your hull isn't much longer, will be wider thus draft less water and add another engine. No brainer, modify what you have.

Image
You're missing the higher rpm equation for the 40's to help the Gen 3, modding will still be limited to 4750 with no warranty.
Current prices to mod are close to this (per engine)
Worked heads $700
cam $350
Worked intake $100
Mikuni kit $850
gaskets $65
Exhaust $400-$700
Labor around $1000



Thanks for the info. Can you help me understand what you mean by "You're missing the higher RPM equation for the 40's to help the Gen 3"? Today fully loaded I can really only run 4000 RPM's, I can run higher if I bring out of the water, but that doesn't help anything as I lose speed. I would expect with the 40's I could run closer to 4500 or 4700 RPM. Am I missing something? The price of those mods are about the same as putting new power heads on and I don't get EFI or the 3 yr warranty, what am I missing?


Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
cc1790 wrote:
fishaholic82 wrote:
I would personally modify what you currently have. Heads, cam, exhaust, and a Mikuni would wake those engines up and also be the cheapest option.



So what is the cost for all of this?



If both of your engines are stock you're looking between $3,000- $3,500 per engine to modify them if you have someone else do the install. If you install the parts yourself you will save between $800- $1,000.

If for some reason you truly think you need to turn up more than 4,750 rpm's then you can also have the flywheel broached and remove the rpm restriction. Stock 40hp efi engines are limited to 4,800 rpm's.

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Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:21 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Forgot to add that the new 40 hp efi engines are around $4,300 last I checked.

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Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:22 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
OP could probably recoup some by selling is stock power heads if he goes to the 40.


Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
The only problem with trying to sell his current power heads is the market sucks for them right now due to so many 40 swaps. If its about money and he's machanically inclined, then mod current setup. If money is not limiting factor, then go 40's. Check out the classifieds and see haw many older CDI non-efi power heads are still hanging around.


Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:08 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
Is that picture at the launch by hanko in the intracoastal?

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Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:47 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
yep from oh shit like 2009. That was a barge of a boat my buddy had that I threw my PD on after the briggs mods. Then I built my current 17'6" x48"


Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:05 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
banded-mallard wrote:
The only problem with trying to sell his current power heads is the market sucks for them right now due to so many 40 swaps. If its about money and he's machanically inclined, then mod current setup. If money is not limiting factor, then go 40's. Check out the classifieds and see haw many older CDI non-efi power heads are still hanging around.
I tried to give one away for six months. Ended up throwing it in the trash.

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Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:24 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
cc1790 wrote:
Looking to get more power and speed to carry a load on my 2060 Phowler. Currently have twin 36 prodrives Gen 3, stock engines with carb . Looking at one of three options, looking for opinions / advice and what you would do:

Option 1: Put new 40hp EFI power heads on - Probably about $8k total, get 3 year warranty?

Option 2: Do motor mods (need input on which ones and what cost would be)?

Option 3: Sell mud motors and put on 90hp outboard with jackplate?

Thoughts?


Do like I did,Sell it and get a Gatortail

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Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:58 am
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
cb5331 wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
The only problem with trying to sell his current power heads is the market sucks for them right now due to so many 40 swaps. If its about money and he's machanically inclined, then mod current setup. If money is not limiting factor, then go 40's. Check out the classifieds and see haw many older CDI non-efi power heads are still hanging around.
I tried to give one away for six months. Ended up throwing it in the trash.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk



I started to put yours in there but i figured when he went to the classifieds, hed see you trying to give shit away. Lol


Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Looking for advice - Which way would you go
banded-mallard wrote:
cb5331 wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
The only problem with trying to sell his current power heads is the market sucks for them right now due to so many 40 swaps. If its about money and he's machanically inclined, then mod current setup. If money is not limiting factor, then go 40's. Check out the classifieds and see haw many older CDI non-efi power heads are still hanging around.
I tried to give one away for six months. Ended up throwing it in the trash.

Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk


I started to put yours in there but i figured when he went to the classifieds, hed see you trying to give shit away. Lol


Thats crazy. I bet you could sell them up here in Michigan. If I lived your way I would have taken it out of your trash.


Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:48 pm
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