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 35 or 5000 
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Post 35 or 5000
First real post here aside from an introduction. I'm looking at either a 35 or the new 5000 anniversary mud buddy. Seems simple right? Go with more power...

Here's the skinny. I'm looking at a new boat, which will probably be a Crestliner 1860 jon (mod. V, 3.5 deg. deadrise). I know, not a mud boat. But, I don't need a mud boat. I need a shallow water river boat that can cross logs, go through weeds and not suck up leaves (jet) for fall duck hunting, and occasionally go out onto bigger rivers (Detroit, Tittabawassee) and inland lakes.

Anyways, the typical load will be two to three people with an occasional fourth and a dog for a hunt load, and two to as many as five during fishing season here in Michigan, which can mean Steelhead fishing in March to Salmon in November.

I talked with a local dealer about ordering either the 40efi anniversary or the 5000 Mud Buddy, but he just got in a 35hp MB with 10 hours for $6k. I'm wondering if it would be worth the effort to build up the 35 and save a few bones, or just bite the bullet and go with the big guys. What are your semi-professional opinions.... ? How much hp can you squeeze out of these things before you start busting cranks and having to wrench on them constantly? I have no issue wrenching on things, was mechanic for 15 years, but I'd like something reliable.

I have a buddy who just purchased a sweet F4 with a 37efi Gator Tail and we are noticing issues planing out with max load. I'm trying to avoid that issue...

Yes I know to use the search feature, and I will for the 35hp motor reference. But surface drives are kind of scarce up here and the dealer having a used one is pretty unusual. I don't expect it to be around long at that price. Thanks for any input.


Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:41 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
I personally wouldnt pay extra for a poorly modified engine. Go with the 35 and send it to a reputable engine builder.

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:46 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
With those type of loads as described, I wouldn't go with a 5000 from mudbuddy.
but would go with the 40hp.
Then after the motor is good and broken in, look into mods for it.
You will not be happy with a stock 35 on that boat with those loads.
Sure you can mod the 35 right away.
but being it only has 10 hours on it, your not giving the motor enough heat/cool cycles and the heads will eventually need to be touched up again.
Just my $.02.

I'd go stock 40hp then mod as needed

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:23 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
That's exactly why I posted here. I wasn't expecting to hear that... So don't purchase the 5000? Is the anniversary 40 efi with the upgrades worth it, or just buy the standard 40 and upgrade it once it has seasoned? If a standard 40 is the recommendation, I may just go back to my original thought of the Boss 40XP.. Thanks guys, saves me a grand and a lot of bad words... Keep it coming!


Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:04 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
trofazz wrote:
That's exactly why I posted here. I wasn't expecting to hear that... So don't purchase the 5000? Is the anniversary 40 efi with the upgrades worth it, or just buy the standard 40 and upgrade it once it has seasoned? If a standard 40 is the recommendation, I may just go back to my original thought of the Boss 40XP.. Thanks guys, saves me a grand and a lot of bad words... Keep it coming!



I don't know what is included in the 40hp "Anniversary" model.
But I wouldn't buy a modded motor brand new from mudbuddy.
I'd personally put 100 hours or so on a stock motor, then do mods.
and what you described as your typical loads, id go with the 40.
If you like boss, look into the Boss Hoss.
You wouldn't have to mod the Hoss at all.

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Giga, u need a fukin throat punch. if u want flotation, good for u, but don't ever, for 1 second of your miserable life, think u can tell me what to do.

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:10 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Get the 40hp and have someone mod it for you.

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:13 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
[/quote]I don't know what is included in the 40hp "Anniversary" model.
But I wouldn't buy a modded motor brand new from mudbuddy.
I'd personally put 100 hours or so on a stock motor, then do mods.
and what you described as your typical loads, id go with the 40.
If you like boss, look into the Boss Hoss.
You wouldn't have to mod the Hoss at all.[/quote]



It looks like the anniversary model 40hp adds (performance wise) a Q performance stainless exhaust and a K&N air filter for $200 extra. Worth it? IDK... I'd love a Boss Hoss, but that's a hefty chunk of change...

Has anyone noticed on Mud Buddy's site they have their engines listed as 933cc where Boss Drive has theirs as 993cc? Is this a typo or are Boss using a big block design where Mud Buddy is not? Doesn't seem right.

WhoDat88 wrote:
Get the 40hp and have someone mod it for you.


How do you like the Boss drive?


Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:10 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
trofazz wrote:
I don't know what is included in the 40hp "Anniversary" model.
But I wouldn't buy a modded motor brand new from mudbuddy.
I'd personally put 100 hours or so on a stock motor, then do mods.
and what you described as your typical loads, id go with the 40.
If you like boss, look into the Boss Hoss.
You wouldn't have to mod the Hoss at all.[/quote]



It looks like the anniversary model 40hp adds (performance wise) a Q performance stainless exhaust and a K&N air filter for $200 extra. Worth it? IDK... I'd love a Boss Hoss, but that's a hefty chunk of change...

Has anyone noticed on Mud Buddy's site they have their engines listed as 933cc where Boss Drive has theirs as 993cc? Is this a typo or are Boss using a big block design where Mud Buddy is not? Doesn't seem right.

WhoDat88 wrote:
Get the 40hp and have someone mod it for you.


How do you like the Boss drive?[/quote]


Probably just a typo on the site.
And I doubt the air filters matters much, but for $200 more, you get a Q, that seems like a good deal.
They are around $450+ new.

You're gunna spend close to $9k+ on a brand new stock motor, and a Boss Hoss is what, $12k-$14k or so?
You will spend a good chunk of change in mods on the briggs too.
Its all in what you want.

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Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:19 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Typo

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#TheGhostBoat
#whoneedsphysicsihaveamudmotor


Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:21 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
You're gunna spend close to $9k+ on a brand new stock motor, and a Boss Hoss is what, $12k-$14k or so?
[/quote]


$14,200 according to their site. I like that setup but damn, $$$$ would have to hire out the wife... I'm thinking the 40 is more the ticket. The wife has had four kids, market value is down... :D

Thanks again for the info.


Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:18 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
trofazz wrote:
You're gunna spend close to $9k+ on a brand new stock motor, and a Boss Hoss is what, $12k-$14k or so?



$14,200 according to their site. I like that setup but damn, $$$$ would have to hire out the wife... I'm thinking the 40 is more the ticket. The wife has had four kids, market value is down... :D

Thanks again for the info.[/quote]


I agree the 40 is the way to go

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dead animal wrote:
Giga, u need a fukin throat punch. if u want flotation, good for u, but don't ever, for 1 second of your miserable life, think u can tell me what to do.

whatever


Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:21 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Stumps and logs suck. I know your mainly talking about motors, but while your already planning to shell some money out, you may want to reconsider getting a horizontally braced boat. The log will dent the area between braces and cause a hook in the hull. It will rob you of performance eventually as it will create drag. Plenty of threads on here if you want to research before you buy.


Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:31 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Bigbend wrote:
Stumps and logs suck. I know your mainly talking about motors, but while your already planning to shell some money out, you may want to reconsider getting a horizontally braced boat. The log will dent the area between braces and cause a hook in the hull. It will rob you of performance eventually as it will create drag. Plenty of threads on here if you want to research before you buy.


Definitely will be doing some more research, thank you for the suggestion. I've been eyeballing the Sea Ark and War Eagle boats as well, but the package cost is already a sticker shock for a river boat without stepping into a top of the line boat. I didn't realize that trying to stay under $20k would be so hard to do... I really like the Crestliner jon/Lowe roughneck layout for my application, short deck, and wide open with a wider beam for stability, but I realize they aren't the toughest. I'd have no issues going used as there are some killer deals out there, but my credit union will not do out of state transactions unless it's a dealer (there goes the markup), and most of the market is in TX, AR, LA, etc...


Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:30 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
trofazz wrote:
Bigbend wrote:
Stumps and logs suck. I know your mainly talking about motors, but while your already planning to shell some money out, you may want to reconsider getting a horizontally braced boat. The log will dent the area between braces and cause a hook in the hull. It will rob you of performance eventually as it will create drag. Plenty of threads on here if you want to research before you buy.


Definitely will be doing some more research, thank you for the suggestion. I've been eyeballing the Sea Ark and War Eagle boats as well, but the package cost is already a sticker shock for a river boat without stepping into a top of the line boat. I didn't realize that trying to stay under $20k would be so hard to do... I really like the Crestliner jon/Lowe roughneck layout for my application, short deck, and wide open with a wider beam for stability, but I realize they aren't the toughest. I'd have no issues going used as there are some killer deals out there, but my credit union will not do out of state transactions unless it's a dealer (there goes the markup), and most of the market is in TX, AR, LA, etc...


Sounds like your Credit Union is afraid of handling the Taxes. You can always see if a seller has a preferred dealer. Most people want to trade their boats in for Tax savings, while most dealers do not want used mud boats. You might be able to pay the dealer a small fee for doing and “In and Out deal”. However, a lot of dealers will to help sale a new boat.


Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:58 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
I know you're trying to save money, but you're going to end up spending more in the long run if you try going with any of the hulls you've mentioned. Sea Ark and War Eagle might last a little longer, but they still aren't as well built as some others. Mud motors are extremely sensitive to any weight changes and/or hull defects. What you might consider a small dent could have a huge impact that will leave you wanting more, especially with large loads.


Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:05 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
You can get with one of these custom builders down here and tell them your max is $20k. They will tell you what you can and can’t have and keep you in your budget. 20k is very doable

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Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:11 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
The anniversary model is worth the extra 200$. Besides the Q, it’s a totally upgraded frame. 2nd trim switch on the backside, like an outboard. Beefed up tiller handle, new football with bump feature and redesigned/relocate Kill switch. The Q alone makes it a good deal.

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Wed Jul 18, 2018 3:22 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Quack N Stack wrote:
You can get with one of these custom builders down here and tell them your max is $20k. They will tell you what you can and can’t have and keep you in your budget. 20k is very doable


I'm trying to find some of them. So far I've contacted prodigy and looking at phowler boats. Both of which seem to have a stronger hull. Are there any others recommended? Sponsors, anyone? I'll do some more searching online and here and see what I can come up with. A list of boat mfg. would be sweet to run across. Thank you.

lunacris wrote:
The anniversary model is worth the extra 200$. Besides the Q, it’s a totally upgraded frame. 2nd trim switch on the backside, like an outboard. Beefed up tiller handle, new football with bump feature and redesigned/relocate Kill switch. The Q alone makes it a good deal.


That's what I was thinking. I really like the Boss drive 40XP, but this MB anniversary model looks good as well.


Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:43 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Westi wrote:
I know you're trying to save money, but you're going to end up spending more in the long run if you try going with any of the hulls you've mentioned. Sea Ark and War Eagle might last a little longer, but they still aren't as well built as some others. Mud motors are extremely sensitive to any weight changes and/or hull defects. What you might consider a small dent could have a huge impact that will leave you wanting more, especially with large loads.


I agree. I was originally trying to keep it more economical, but my wife was actually the voice of reason here. She said to get what I want the first time and not to worry about a couple grand extra. Think I'll keep that woman... It's hard to figure out which ones are better built. They all look great on the computer.... :roll: Mud boats/motors aren't as common up here. Only a couple of dealers in the state....


Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:50 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
I've got the new hdr 40 on my 1854 .125 prodigy and love it but need some more umph behind it for hunting season coming up. Sending to Pete Willett at wc boats here in Texas in a couple weeks for new heads and tune to open it up some.


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Thu Jul 19, 2018 8:22 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
trofazz wrote:
Quack N Stack wrote:
You can get with one of these custom builders down here and tell them your max is $20k. They will tell you what you can and can’t have and keep you in your budget. 20k is very doable


I'm trying to find some of them. So far I've contacted prodigy and looking at phowler boats. Both of which seem to have a stronger hull. Are there any others recommended? Sponsors, anyone? I'll do some more searching online and here and see what I can come up with. A list of boat mfg. would be sweet to run across. Thank you.

lunacris wrote:
The anniversary model is worth the extra 200$. Besides the Q, it’s a totally upgraded frame. 2nd trim switch on the backside, like an outboard. Beefed up tiller handle, new football with bump feature and redesigned/relocate Kill switch. The Q alone makes it a good deal.


That's what I was thinking. I really like the Boss drive 40XP, but this MB anniversary model looks good as well.


Uncle J boats

WC custom boats

Prodigy boats

Timber creek boats

Instagaor boats

Are all some of the more popular ones. I’m sure there’s a few I’m missing.

You know what size boat your looking for? There’s a fella I know down here that’s got a Instagator boat for sale with a really nice built GTR on it. Practically brand new, has very few hours on it. Like I mean almost none.

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Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:00 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
[/quote]

Uncle J boats

WC custom boats

Prodigy boats

Timber creek boats

Instagaor boats

Are all some of the more popular ones. I’m sure there’s a few I’m missing.

You know what size boat your looking for? There’s a fella I know down here that’s got a Instagator boat for sale with a really nice built GTR on it. Practically brand new, has very few hours on it. Like I mean almost none.[/quote]


Thank you sir, I'm looking for something in the 1860 range, enough to hunt 4 on occasion, mostly 2-3 tho, and fish up to 5 or 6 a couple times a year. I might consider a larger boat but I need to be able to get a motor with enough umph to push it under hunt loads. Thinking a 40efi for now, mods down the road...


Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:46 am
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Post 35 or 5000
trofazz wrote:


Uncle J boats

WC custom boats

Prodigy boats

Timber creek boats

Instagaor boats

Are all some of the more popular ones. I’m sure there’s a few I’m missing.

You know what size boat your looking for? There’s a fella I know down here that’s got a Instagator boat for sale with a really nice built GTR on it. Practically brand new, has very few hours on it. Like I mean almost none.[/quote]


Thank you sir, I'm looking for something in the 1860 range, enough to hunt 4 on occasion, mostly 2-3 tho, and fish up to 5 or 6 a couple times a year. I might consider a larger boat but I need to be able to get a motor with enough umph to push it under hunt loads. Thinking a 40efi for now, mods down the road...[/quote]

All the above make great hulls from what I can tell with mine and from talking to owners of them personally. I've dealt with the customer service side with prodigy, wc custom and timber creek and they are all very accommodating people. I know prodigy I believe had a 1960 solid for sale right now with a 40 on it plus a couple 1854 platinum/elites Camo that will probably sale quick. And that instigator mentioned above is a badass looking rig. Can't believe it hasn't sold already!


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Thu Jul 19, 2018 11:51 am
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
18x60 or a 19x54 would be a size I’d look into for that load. The boat I mentioned is a 1754....got enough motor for that load but maybe not room.

That stock 40 should be fine. I run a 1860 with a stock 37 and it does pretty good. 40 has a lot more balls than the 37’s do.

Just remember when you talk to these builders they will put you in a boat as cheep as possible or more expensive than you’d ever imagine in a aluminum boat.
I’ve seen a brand new custom rig for 18k and I’ve seen em go for 40k. It’s all in the options you pick.

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Thu Jul 19, 2018 2:28 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
I’d call Uncle J- he will build my next boat. An 1854 or 1954 is what I would do with a GTR40XD or a 37 with heads.


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Thu Jul 19, 2018 4:33 pm
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Post Re: 35 or 5000
Keep searching... used hull, new motor. That’s what I did for my hide and I saved at least 3k maybe a little more. I did take me while to find, but a hide is not a highly purchased boat. The guy I bought it from put 50 hrs on it then figured out it was to wide to hunt timber with.

For my next rig, I’m following the same process.

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Thu Jul 19, 2018 6:23 pm
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