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 Performance crimp 
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Post Performance crimp
Having a 1746 built in the very near future. Need y'all's opinions on whether I should get them or not. From my
understanding they create lift and make for a dryer ride. Is this the case?

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Post Re: Performance crimp
I have them and not sure who told you they provide lift. I have had up to 1500 lbs in the boat and the performance crimp is still a couple inches above the water line. So no lift there with them out the water.

I do think they help with water spray.

I think they suck in Lillie's. I find in thick Lillie's they catch them and pick the boat up out the water. Buddies with flat sides do way better them my boat.

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Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
They help your back in stay higher while running. It makes lift by making the water that rides up your sides while running gets thrown off the hull. The more water ridding on the sides tends to suck the back the boat down.


Sun Jan 26, 2014 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
I like the faded v crimp some of the builders are doing now...

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Post Re: Performance crimp
I think if you could make a performance crimp lower as in making the bottom brake closer to the water it would produce a little more lift. Never seen it done but throwing ideas out there.


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Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:08 pm
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Post Performance crimp
They do provide lift.they reduce friction from the water. They keep water from climbing the gunwale up to the gunnel caps thus lifting the hull that much more. They deflect the water out and away from the hull. Though it may not be much lift I'm sure it helps.


Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Alright thanks fellas I appreciate the feedback

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Post Re: Performance crimp
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.

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Post Re: Performance crimp
banded-mallard wrote:
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


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Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:24 am
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Post Re: Performance crimp
dfou wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


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Just my personal experience. I had a short rake boat bout 19.5'. I noticed that when running deep water at WFO I had a lot of boat plowing in the water. So when building my new hull, I decided to go longer, more gradual rake. I went back 7.5' on a 17.5' hull. I was just thinking of my hyperformance with my 225. Now that hull running mid 80's is nothing compared to these, but the concept is the same. The hull wants to run on the pad and lift the hull up, thus running on less surface of the bottom of the boat. I wanted less boat in the water on my mud hull. Now when I run WFO in my new hull, I have way less boat in the water, thus less drag. I haven't run any true calculations on it, but it works. I can still tote a serious load (but I have stage 2) whith the longer rake. Don't know, maybe I just nailed it.

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Post Re: Performance crimp
banded-mallard wrote:
dfou wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


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Just my personal experience. I had a short rake boat bout 19.5'. I noticed that when running deep water at WFO I had a lot of boat plowing in the water. So when building my new hull, I decided to go longer, more gradual rake. I went back 7.5' on a 17.5' hull. I was just thinking of my hyperformance with my 225. Now that hull running mid 80's is nothing compared to these, but the concept is the same. The hull wants to run on the pad and lift the hull up, thus running on less surface of the bottom of the boat. I wanted less boat in the water on my mud hull. Now when I run WFO in my new hull, I have way less boat in the water, thus less drag. I haven't run any true calculations on it, but it works. I can still tote a serious load (but I have stage 2) whith the longer rake. Don't know, maybe I just nailed it.


Less boat in the water is because you have more motor and flat out less boat (17' from 19'). Your hyperformance had a pad. That's what a pad is designed to do, lift the boat up on a small running section. I'm not sure a mm could do that.


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Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:57 am
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Dfou u can correct me if I'm wrong but the crimp in the side is for strength to not to have bracing on the inside

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Post Re: Performance crimp
pokey79 wrote:
Dfou u can correct me if I'm wrong but the crimp in the side is for strength to not to have bracing on the inside


definitely makes it stronger but when the crimp is in the right spot it will deflect water. I run my crimp lower than most or atleast the guy who crimps mine have never done em that low for anyone else.

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Post Re: Performance crimp
DuckHunterF250 wrote:
pokey79 wrote:
Dfou u can correct me if I'm wrong but the crimp in the side is for strength to not to have bracing on the inside


definitely makes it stronger but when the crimp is in the right spot it will deflect water. I run my crimp lower than most or atleast the guy who crimps mine have never done em that low for anyone else.


I agree with this. Has to be low to be affective (in my opinion)


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Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:15 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
How far up the sides seems to be the best place for the bottom of the crimp to be?

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Post Re: Performance crimp
banded-mallard wrote:
dfou wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


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Just my personal experience. I had a short rake boat bout 19.5'. I noticed that when running deep water at WFO I had a lot of boat plowing in the water. So when building my new hull, I decided to go longer, more gradual rake. I went back 7.5' on a 17.5' hull. I was just thinking of my hyperformance with my 225. Now that hull running mid 80's is nothing compared to these, but the concept is the same. The hull wants to run on the pad and lift the hull up, thus running on less surface of the bottom of the boat. I wanted less boat in the water on my mud hull. Now when I run WFO in my new hull, I have way less boat in the water, thus less drag. I haven't run any true calculations on it, but it works. I can still tote a serious load (but I have stage 2) whith the longer rake. Don't know, maybe I just nailed it.



Isnt this why Mike Kliebert makes his hulls with that long ass rake. So less boat is in the water.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:49 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
DuckHunterF250 wrote:
pokey79 wrote:
Dfou u can correct me if I'm wrong but the crimp in the side is for strength to not to have bracing on the inside


definitely makes it stronger but when the crimp is in the right spot it will deflect water. I run my crimp lower than most or atleast the guy who crimps mine have never done em that low for anyone else.

Exactly the reason my next boat will have a lower crimp than most possibly 1-2" lower than what I had, will also run a 7.5' rake on the next boat, 19" sides and 21"transom


Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:56 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
I'm no boat builder and am not claiming to be correct...but I was under the impression the "performance crimp" was for strength. Seems it would have to be awfully low...and you would have to be going awfully fast...to give the boat any type of lift from the sides and simply spray deflected away from the sides. But then again, I am used to seeing lift created by directing water down...not out. Not saying it wouldn't do it...just don't think you are gaining much lift...if any...especially when running on a step at 30 mph +/- 5 mph.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:09 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
dfou wrote:
DuckHunterF250 wrote:
pokey79 wrote:
Dfou u can correct me if I'm wrong but the crimp in the side is for strength to not to have bracing on the inside


definitely makes it stronger but when the crimp is in the right spot it will deflect water. I run my crimp lower than most or atleast the guy who crimps mine have never done em that low for anyone else.


I agree with this. Has to be low to be affective (in my opinion)


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Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:12 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
V's are put in the sides to add stiffness. Angle and height are wrong to add lift or turn down water.

For lift you need 1.5 or 2" turn out Parallel to the bottom about 2" up

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Post Re: Performance crimp
BlueShamu wrote:
I'm no boat builder and am not claiming to be correct...but I was under the impression the "performance crimp" was for strength. Seems it would have to be awfully low...and you would have to be going awfully fast...to give the boat any type of lift from the sides and simply spray deflected away from the sides. But then again, I am used to seeing lift created by directing water down...not out. Not saying it wouldn't do it...just don't think you are gaining much lift...if any...especially when running on a step at 30 mph +/- 5 mph.


dont really see it adding any lift but it will spray water away from the hull when its its the right spot. its mainly for spray, strength and it looks good.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:27 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
JD wrote:
V's are put in the sides to add stiffness. Angle and height are wrong to add lift or turn down water.

For lift you need 1.5 or 2" turn out Parallel to the bottom about 2" up

JD


I will go for that....minimum parallel to the bottom....more lift if you can direct the water back down...but I guess that becomes a reaction chine? I can't see a tapered, "performance" crimp 6"-8" up the side of the boat adding lift.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
So how far up the sides should they be when measuring from the bottom of the boat?

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Eh, less resistance on the sides... Less drag on sides would mean more boat up in the water column... Kinda like the rake thing, less resistance more boat out the water, more lift.. Bass boat riding on a pad, less resistance creating lift same concept I'm sure it's minute.


Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Ok about the rake thing... I have ridden in a 1650 (May have been 52 I can't remember)express hyperlift hull and we were outrunning a 1648 war eagle. Both boats almost identically loaded. And both had built tohatsu megas that were built by the exact same man with the exact same mods.. So something made a big difference.. I run hard bottom timber and need as much lift as possible out of as narrow a boat as possible. Already have a long tail, and it's great for what I do, but it's just
Not enough rig anymore (longer runs, bigger loads) so it's time for the move on up to a SD

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Post Re: Performance crimp
Ok about the rake thing... I have ridden in a 1650 (May have been 52 I can't remember)express hyperlift hull and we were outrunning a 1648 war eagle. Both boats almost identically loaded. And both had built tohatsu megas that were built by the exact same man with the exact same mods.. So something made a big difference.. I run hard bottom timber and need as much lift as possible out of as narrow a boat as possible. Already have a long tail, and it's great for what I do, but it's just
Not enough rig anymore (longer runs, bigger loads) so it's time for the move on up to a SD

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Post Performance crimp
btmannin wrote:
Ok about the rake thing... I have ridden in a 1650 (May have been 52 I can't remember)express hyperlift hull and we were outrunning a 1648 war eagle. Both boats almost identically loaded. And both had built tohatsu megas that were built by the exact same man with the exact same mods.. So something made a big difference.. I run hard bottom timber and need as much lift as possible out of as narrow a boat as possible. Already have a long tail, and it's great for what I do, but it's just
Not enough rig anymore (longer runs, bigger loads) so it's time for the move on up to a SD
that wareagle was prolly a modv boat, that hyper lift is different with double step reverse chine padded bottom and a LONG v rake.


Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:06 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Yea both were mod v's. (Not just the duck bill on the war chicken) both made out of .100 ..express hull did have a much longer v.. So my next question, what would be the optimal hull for achieving the best hole shot. And remember this is going to be a square chine 1746.. Would it be a 7.5 foot rake, hunt deck, and performance crimp 2" up the sides?

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:12 pm
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Post Performance crimp
What I meant by modv on the wareagle is it prolly has a simple v with ribbed bottom. That hyper lift is made to run on a pad like a bass boat. That's a loaded question lol, seems like you've got your mind made up


Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:16 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Nah my mind isn't made up on every aspect of the build. I've just been around for a while and have a pretty good idea of what I want/need. does the longer rake get on step faster?

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
If I am not mistaken my Sportsman Fab Hull has a 7' rake.

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Post Re: Performance crimp
btmannin wrote:
Yea both were mod v's. (Not just the duck bill on the war chicken) both made out of .100 ..express hull did have a much longer v.. So my next question, what would be the optimal hull for achieving the best hole shot. And remember this is going to be a square chine 1746.. Would it be a 7.5 foot rake, hunt deck, and performance crimp 2" up the sides?


Yeah....trick question. :lol:

Have you seen the thread started by Thirdtimesacharm?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=49608

He is doing a few things different with his builds and is saying it helps mitigate the boat wanting to "squat" on take-off. I also saw another thread...may have been a Prodigy build??? Can't say for sure...but it "looked" like it had a reaction chine that transitioned into a tapered chine. Looked REAL interesting and I can potentially see this giving a boat lift and really great turning/handling....but not necessarily a better hole shot like you are looking to get. Just thought it was an interesting concept which I would like to see run.

There are a lot of things you can do to a hull to increase performance and give it lift while running WOT. But, unfortunately, mudboats and mudmotors somehow don't seem to use the same physics as those performance hulls. I guess it's a matter of give and take. You probably have to give up something to gain something else.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:30 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
Thanks shamu yea I have looked at Corey's thread and really Like cottonmouth boats. I wish I could afford an instigator hull that reaction chine would be saweet. Especially running in the woods. But a working college student's budget keeps the options pretty thin.

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Post Re: Performance crimp
Tbh I'm not entirely sure about it bt. I do know trim tabs will help with hole shot. But I think most of hole shot has to do with the prop and driving skill set.


Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
nasty wrote:
Eh, less resistance on the sides... Less drag on sides would mean more boat up in the water column... Kinda like the rake thing, less resistance more boat out the water, more lift.. Bass boat riding on a pad, less resistance creating lift same concept I'm sure it's minute.



I don't see it that way. Water running up the side of the boat is loss energy that could be used to make lift by turning it back down. Most of the water running up the side is free of the hull, lots of air mixed in that's why it white.

A proper race pad is about 18" wide and 2" tall. Most boats won't climb up until you hit 30+ mph. Once they climb up they break free and gain 10 mph. I had a Renno skiff (lake or crabbing skiff) 20 foot long with a 50 " bottom, straight keel line with a little v up front. I put a 6 inch set back ( square tunnel) behind a 18" wide pad that ran full length. When it got up it would break free and run about 12 mph faster with no more throttle. That boat ran 53 mph with a 65 hp tiller control Johnson. It was scary fast and would run so shallow you would see the impression of the hull in the mud and the ditch the prop made. You just could not stop!!!!!!!

flat planing surfaces create lift. Deep v's don't climb up as high because of the V . That why they put lift skates on deep v's to create flats for lift.

When you get the boat on the pad, you break the suction on the rest of the hull by getting a little air introduced reducing friction. You have to have enough HP to get the load you are carrying up on that pad for all that to come together.


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Post Re: Performance crimp
naj wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
dfou wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


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Just my personal experience. I had a short rake boat bout 19.5'. I noticed that when running deep water at WFO I had a lot of boat plowing in the water. So when building my new hull, I decided to go longer, more gradual rake. I went back 7.5' on a 17.5' hull. I was just thinking of my hyperformance with my 225. Now that hull running mid 80's is nothing compared to these, but the concept is the same. The hull wants to run on the pad and lift the hull up, thus running on less surface of the bottom of the boat. I wanted less boat in the water on my mud hull. Now when I run WFO in my new hull, I have way less boat in the water, thus less drag. I haven't run any true calculations on it, but it works. I can still tote a serious load (but I have stage 2) whith the longer rake. Don't know, maybe I just nailed it.



Isnt this why Mike Kliebert makes his hulls with that long ass rake. So less boat is in the water.

When he built my hull he said the longer rake was for a couple of reasons. One being that it helps to not dip the back under water when climbing over downed trees and stumps. It makes for a smoother transition by doing this.

Also, it most certainly helps with load carrying abilities. I can carry and step an amazing amount of weight for a 23lt. When I load the front the boat with sacks of crawfish it wants to ride on its nose while idling but give it some gas and it'll lift the front end and plane out.

I know when my boat was brand new and had a smooth flat bottom it actually ran faster with a little weight in the front. I think that long rake lifted the front so much that the back sat too low. The weight in the front leveled it out. Take in mind this is a round chine hull which sits and runs lower to begin with, not sure a square chine would have this problem.

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:43 am
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Post Re: Performance crimp
JD wrote:
nasty wrote:
Eh, less resistance on the sides... Less drag on sides would mean more boat up in the water column... Kinda like the rake thing, less resistance more boat out the water, more lift.. Bass boat riding on a pad, less resistance creating lift same concept I'm sure it's minute.



I don't see it that way. Water running up the side of the boat is loss energy that could be used to make lift by turning it back down. Most of the water running up the side is free of the hull, lots of air mixed in that's why it white.

A proper race pad is about 18" wide and 2" tall. Most boats won't climb up until you hit 30+ mph. Once they climb up they break free and gain 10 mph. I had a Renno skiff (lake or crabbing skiff) 20 foot long with a 50 " bottom, straight keel line with a little v up front. I put a 6 inch set back ( square tunnel) behind a 18" wide pad that ran full length. When it got up it would break free and run about 12 mph faster with no more throttle. That boat ran 53 mph with a 65 hp tiller control Johnson. It was scary fast and would run so shallow you would see the impression of the hull in the mud and the ditch the prop made. You just could not stop!!!!!!!

flat planing surfaces create lift. Deep v's don't climb up as high because of the V . That why they put lift skates on deep v's to create flats for lift.

When you get the boat on the pad, you break the suction on the rest of the hull by getting a little air introduced reducing friction. You have to have enough HP to get the load you are carrying up on that pad for all that to come together.
that's what I'm saying though... the crimp pushes the water down and away... Or are you saying it has to be straight down to create lift?


Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:13 am
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Post Re: Performance crimp
da go get'er wrote:
naj wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
dfou wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


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Just my personal experience. I had a short rake boat bout 19.5'. I noticed that when running deep water at WFO I had a lot of boat plowing in the water. So when building my new hull, I decided to go longer, more gradual rake. I went back 7.5' on a 17.5' hull. I was just thinking of my hyperformance with my 225. Now that hull running mid 80's is nothing compared to these, but the concept is the same. The hull wants to run on the pad and lift the hull up, thus running on less surface of the bottom of the boat. I wanted less boat in the water on my mud hull. Now when I run WFO in my new hull, I have way less boat in the water, thus less drag. I haven't run any true calculations on it, but it works. I can still tote a serious load (but I have stage 2) whith the longer rake. Don't know, maybe I just nailed it.



Isnt this why Mike Kliebert makes his hulls with that long ass rake. So less boat is in the water.

When he built my hull he said the longer rake was for a couple of reasons. One being that it helps to not dip the back under water when climbing over downed trees and stumps. It makes for a smoother transition by doing this.

Also, it most certainly helps with load carrying abilities. I can carry and step an amazing amount of weight for a 23lt. When I load the front the boat with sacks of crawfish it wants to ride on its nose while idling but give it some gas and it'll lift the front end and plane out.

I know when my boat was brand new and had a smooth flat bottom it actually ran faster with a little weight in the front. I think that long rake lifted the front so much that the back sat too low. The weight in the front leveled it out. Take in mind this is a round chine hull which sits and runs lower to begin with, not sure a square chine would have this problem.


This is exactly what I have been trying to explain. Very well put. Of course it's gonna sit a little more in the water. Not much though. When loaded to the gills like its gonna sink, I can get on plane very quick. It's a better transition to the flat running surface. The slightest throttle will make the it plane out.

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Post Re: Performance crimp
banded-mallard wrote:
da go get'er wrote:
naj wrote:
banded-mallard wrote:
dfou wrote:
[quote="banded-mallard"]I have the fade crimp on this hull. It does well to keep dry. My older hull had the V crimp all the way down the side from fron to back, similiar to the prodrive hulls. It kept me dry as well. As far as lift is concerned, get a stage 2 and it won't plow. Your not running 50 plus and mud rig are not hyperlift hulls. You want less drag, have a longer rake. I did this on my current hull and won't go back to anything else.


Were you ever able to explain how the rake effects this? Maybe I missed it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Just my personal experience. I had a short rake boat bout 19.5'. I noticed that when running deep water at WFO I had a lot of boat plowing in the water. So when building my new hull, I decided to go longer, more gradual rake. I went back 7.5' on a 17.5' hull. I was just thinking of my hyperformance with my 225. Now that hull running mid 80's is nothing compared to these, but the concept is the same. The hull wants to run on the pad and lift the hull up, thus running on less surface of the bottom of the boat. I wanted less boat in the water on my mud hull. Now when I run WFO in my new hull, I have way less boat in the water, thus less drag. I haven't run any true calculations on it, but it works. I can still tote a serious load (but I have stage 2) whith the longer rake. Don't know, maybe I just nailed it.



Isnt this why Mike Kliebert makes his hulls with that long ass rake. So less boat is in the water.

When he built my hull he said the longer rake was for a couple of reasons. One being that it helps to not dip the back under water when climbing over downed trees and stumps. It makes for a smoother transition by doing this.

Also, it most certainly helps with load carrying abilities. I can carry and step an amazing amount of weight for a 23lt. When I load the front the boat with sacks of crawfish it wants to ride on its nose while idling but give it some gas and it'll lift the front end and plane out.

I know when my boat was brand new and had a smooth flat bottom it actually ran faster with a little weight in the front. I think that long rake lifted the front so much that the back sat too low. The weight in the front leveled it out. Take in mind this is a round chine hull which sits and runs lower to begin with, not sure a square chine would have this problem.


This is exactly what I have been trying to explain. Very well put. Of course it's gonna sit a little more in the water. Not much though. When loaded to the gills like its gonna sink, I can get on plane very quick. It's a better transition to the flat running surface. The slightest throttle will make the it plane out.[/quote]

I thought the original claim was that the rake made it faster? Now the long rake helps it get on step?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Performance crimp
It does. The slightest ripples in the water will have less effect on a longer transition than a shorter.

Since were looking at opposite end of the spectrum. Why not go with a 4' rake? More hull in the water. Better load carrying due to displacing more water. Bigger flatter surface.

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Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:05 pm
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