Well, may just have to go ahead and piss the wife off good
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| No more boats without flotation http://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=61746 |
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| Author: | BoatDR [ Tue May 12, 2015 3:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | No more boats without flotation |
From all the forum and social media post this week I hate to drop another bombshell on yall, but I havent seen any chatter about this yet anywhere. I dont know if any of yall have heard, but a few months ago the coast guard decided to eliminate the exemption for being able to sell a boat without flotation. And I hear rumors that they are thinking about making it against the law to sell a commercial boat knowingly to someone who does not have a commercial license (prior to this it was simply a recomendation, and there was no penalty for doing so)..........I dont forsee any of the large mudboat builders being affected by this (other than having to listen to all of yall bitchin about not wanting it), but the backyard guys are all going to have to buy foam machines or find someone to put foam in their boats for them or pay some very stiff fines. Not looking good for them at all. I know that Gator Tail was the first company to receive this exemption, does anyone know when thier exemption is due to expire? Gator Trax and Prodigy both told me that they think thiers expires some time next year, and being that PD is now offering a huntdeck (after all the smack that they have said about them) it looks like they are gearing up for the same thing too. So long story short.........If you are considering a boat in the not too distant future and you dont want flotation in it, now is a good time to get one on order. |
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| Author: | JD145 [ Tue May 12, 2015 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Well, may just have to go ahead and piss the wife off good
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| Author: | WhoDat88 [ Tue May 12, 2015 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Glad I ordered one when I did. The floatation in my last boat started to be a pain. It took up so much space. |
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| Author: | BoatDR [ Tue May 12, 2015 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | kib876 [ Tue May 12, 2015 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Where's Giga?? Lol |
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| Author: | brstanle [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
I'm already planning my next boat, and I want flotation via a self-bailing cockpit. Weld the damn floor in it; no more foam to get wet, no more bilge pump to clog up with leaves and burn up, no more forgetting to turn the bilge pump on and discovering 4" of water in the boat when you go to take off. It'll make the boat taller, but so what? if 3" is a deal-breaker than go with the foam. |
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| Author: | dguidry [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Are there no alternatives to foam for flotation, like CO2 inflatables under the deck and floor that inflate upon flooding or capsizing? |
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| Author: | brstanle [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | dfou [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | brstanle [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | Gigafowl [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | mlasal1 [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
I like the sealed air cavity idea better than foam. Whats the downside to that besides potential space loss |
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| Author: | OwenDickeson [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Punch a hole in the bottom and its not sealed anymore. |
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| Author: | brstanle [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Or smack something hard and crack a weld, which is probably more likely. |
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| Author: | dguidry [ Tue May 12, 2015 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Or build a wooden boat. It floats on its own. |
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| Author: | JLACOUR [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | msm8281 [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | BlueShamu [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Would this apply to homemade boats? What if I made a boat out of wood, fiberglass or aluminum...what would be the difference. Home made boat is regulated by the state guys, right? Most liberals seem to suffer from the same mental condition....it's called stupidity! |
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| Author: | WhoDat88 [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
gator trax has a decent set up with the foam in the hunt deck and front deck. I enjoyed the hell out of my go devil boat but did not like the way they set up the floatation. |
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| Author: | BoatDR [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
My GD does not have floor foam. That's per Coco himself. It does have it in the front deck and rear flotation pods. I really don't mind it. I've had boats with and without it. Doesn't bother me and does give me some sense of safety on the extreme off chance something were to happen with my family in the boat. The sealed air cavities would work well if they were made reliable. Cracked welds after some hard hours will be the deal breaker there. Until then, fuck it, pack your gun box with packing peanuts and roll out
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| Author: | TPerkins [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
So if you sell a used boat will it be grandfathered in? Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Wilson [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
I could be wrong, but I don't think it's too hard to get a commercial fisherman's license in Louisiana. |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Tue May 12, 2015 7:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | msm8281 [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
200$ I believe Or was a couple of years back. |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Maybe everybody with a custom build just gained value in their rigs? LOL Naaaaaa Most liberals seem to suffer from the same mental condition....it's called stupidity! |
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| Author: | dguidry [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
That pic brings back some good memories. Junior holed it in the platin. It floated. It took and airboat a Prodrive and a Gatortail to extract extract him and bring it back to the landing. We replaced the bottom with another sheet of marine ply in two days and were back hunting in time for opening day. |
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| Author: | Capt. JJ [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
BoatDR, not trying to split hairs with you, but from my understanding you e got it a little wrong. I've got an MIC with the coast guard and had my "factory" visit for compliance a few months ago while I was as in the middle of the bay boat build. It has always been illegal to make and sell a commercial boat for anyone who is not using it for commercial use. That's nothing new, and for anyone building boats under an MIC and stamping their own hulls and doing that, they where rolling the dice and the coast guard already had plenty of teeth to enforce it if for some reason something happened and you got caught. The inspector that came to my place, who knew his shit, did say all the mud boat builders with foam exemption would indeed loose it when it expires. He told me the plan at the time was they would only have to meet "basic" flotation requirements, and not the level flotation requirements that go devil meets and there is a big difference. The boat will just have to have enough foam to keep any part of the boat afloat once it's swamped, where the level requirements require the boat to float upright and level with a full load if swamped. Don't know if that was as officially adopted, but he seemed pretty sure that would be the rule. It's been a while since I read through all the regulations, but if I remember right for an air chamber to count for flotation, it can't be integrated into the hull, such as a double bottom, it must be a separate built sealed chamber. It's also my understanding from talking with the inspector, this will in no way affect a back yard built homemade boat. If a boat doesn't have a HIN, it does not fall under the federal regs. If it's homemade and inspected by La and whereing a La hull ID, it doesn't exist to the coast guard d and must only meet whatever La, or whatever other state, says it must. Now if yOur a backyard builder, building "commercial" boats and knowingly selling them to duck hunters, your breaking plenty rules and taking your chances, and I can't say that I haven't done it my self. If a guy buys all the material, and just subs out my labor to build a homemade boat, and registers it as homemade by himself, there's not much anyone can do about it. I think foam is a great thing in small boats, and does in fact save lots of lives every year. I've read all the arguments on here over here about it how bad ass everyone is and can run boats so good they never need a boat with foam. Just like I e seen plenty welders over the years that have never made a bad weld. In both cases, you've just never done enough of either if you haven't got pinched in a bad spot. That said, I think it's beyond ridiculous that a grown man can't knowingly choose to spend his own money to have a boat built how he wants it, and make his own decision about his own safety and well being. My personal boats don't have any foam. If a customer wants foam I will always put it in and not try to talk them out of it. It's not the back yard guys this rule will hurt. It's the small legit guys that can't get around the rule, and will have to incur the additional labor, material, engineering and testing cost the meet the requirements. |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Tue May 12, 2015 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | Rambeaux_67 [ Wed May 13, 2015 6:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | dfou [ Wed May 13, 2015 8:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
From my conversations with them JJ has it right. Seems like this is only gonna help the "backyard" guys. Wonder what's gonna happen with the program La. has where they issue HIN's ? |
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| Author: | Capt. JJ [ Thu May 14, 2015 5:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | Terraboat [ Thu May 14, 2015 6:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Got my selfbailing sbx and love it. Run deep water, rough weather, and rivers without a concern. Question for all you guys that think you can't sink....what about liability? I don't think insurance companies will cover any large claims once they figure out you either removed foam or bought / insured a boat with a lie (assuming you did not tell the insurance company that your bought a commercial rated boat for commercial fishing). And I'm not talking about the damage or loss due to sinking a mudboat. That's pocket change. I'm talking about when you (or your son and friends) hit something in the water without life jackets and the boat sinks. If one of them drowns, their families will come after you and your insurance. If You bought a non coast guard approved boat or altered it to unsafe condition, that will be easy pickens. Regardless of it sinking the boat made a difference. If they don't win, the dam blood sucking lawyers you had to hire, drain you. Good way to lose a lot off assets....running any moving vehicle with proper safety equipment or liability insurance is a roll of the dice. I carry a million dollar liability policy on my mud boat and ski boats. Between work and contractors on my house, I have been sued 4 times. Luckily, my insurance covered and fought/settled claims for me. If you a single, young kid with no assest, probably no big deal since you got nothing to sue anyway. |
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| Author: | danimalw [ Thu May 14, 2015 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Just curious and not trying to stir the pot on foam/no foam... Does anyone use polyethylene closed cell foam for flotation? I would think it may be a little heavier than the poured, expanding foam and wouldn't fill the space completely. But I would think it would be more durable than the poured foam and would be easy to install under double floors and under decks. |
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| Author: | Capt. JJ [ Thu May 14, 2015 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
Question for all you guys that think you can't sink....what about liability? I don't think insurance companies will cover any large claims once they figure out you either removed foam or bought / insured a boat with a lie (assuming you did not tell the insurance company that your bought a commercial rated boat for commercial fishing). Your 100% right and I couln't agree more. Every one playing the game with the commercial rating thing, from the builders to the consumers are rolling the dice, and there are potentially very big consequences. Since getting my MIC, I won't build a boat with my HIN# on under 20' (anything 20' and over is exempt from any foam requirments) The boats I've built under 20 are all wearing either La and Ms issued HIN#. Even then, I'm to the point in life that this whole boat building thing, which is just a side venture for me, is not worth the potential liablity I open my self up to, and I'm about done with it. Most all stuff I've built and sold has been to pretty close friends and family, which has caused me to be a little more complacent when it comes to the liability I've opened my self up to. I'm about to start on a 1956 CC mudboat which will probably be my last. As to the closed cell foam. The stuff we use that pours, or shoots in, is a two part ployurathane CLOSED cell foam. It's pretty good stuff, and for the most part will not absourb water for many years, but does eventually break down. I've used and seen used the closed cell foam board, as well as the old white styrofoam block. One of the bigger issue's with the foam, especialy in the floors of flat bottom aluminum boats used in brackish water is corrosion. Salt water gets in the bottom of the boat, between the hull bottom and foam board. Sitting in there, void or deprived of oxygen, saltwater becomes corrosive to aluminum, even 5086. |
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| Author: | pinepointer [ Thu May 14, 2015 8:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
My boat's builder here in Canada was using sealed air space for flotation under the side decks and seats, but has switched to rolled up bubble wrap. Stays sealed even if the f/g cracks. Not sure if that meets what USCG wants. |
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| Author: | mikecatt13 [ Thu May 14, 2015 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | Woodiebuster [ Thu May 14, 2015 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
What if the mfgs make it really easy for you to remove the foam? Just some pods rivited in or somethin. I don't see where it's against the law for you to remove it. Personally, I think if you want a boat with no floatation and knowingly buy it as such there should be no regulation whatsoever. Fuck all these bullshit laws the gov crams down our throat |
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| Author: | JD145 [ Thu May 14, 2015 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
| Author: | Terraboat [ Thu May 14, 2015 11:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: No more boats without flotation |
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