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 Hdr knocking sound in reverse 
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Post Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Recently picked up a 37 efi hdr mudbuddy used, 2016 with 45 hours on it. Got it all connected today and started it for the first time. Neutral sounds right, goes forward sounds good, but when putting it into reverse, there is an obvious knocking that is not heard when in neutral or forward. Sounds like it is coming from the upper housing where the clutch is. I'm new to these motors and the last mudmotor I had was a Koehler 18 on a very early first Gen mudbuddy HD frame with no reverse. Any ideas on this knocking noise? My buddy has a 5000 efi hdr and I cannot recall it making that noise. I have a video of the noise and am willing to send it if anyone wants to hear what I'm talking about. Just pm me and I can email the video. I don't know how to upload a vid on the thread here. Thanks for any help guys. And I know, gtr is better, but the deal was a screaming one and couldn't pass it up. Came from a dealer and had it shipped, was fully crated and stabilized, no damage is seen anywhere but it did go across country to get to me. Wondering if something got knocked loose during shipping?


Fri Feb 22, 2019 5:01 pm
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Post Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I had a few of the bolts inside the planetary back out one time on my GTR because I had forgotten to put blue loctite on them. That caused a noticeable knocking in reverse but none in forward. Check in your reverse gearing.


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Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:08 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I will do just that. Plan on taking the new rig over to a buddies tomorrow and wiring up all the lighting etc. I'll probably pull the back cover off and take a look at it all. Again, still quite the newbie when it comes to all this, so I'm not 100% sure what I'll be looking at but my buddy has the 5000 efi hdr, so may open his plate up and compare side by side.


Fri Feb 22, 2019 6:55 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
My hdr makes a noise when put in reverse at idle speed, but goes away when you give it some gas. My buddies does the same thing.


Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
So I pulled the back cover and no screws seem to be backing out anywhere. The magnets seem to have quite a bit of play. Not sure if there are supposed to be seals or anything to stabilize them. Motor goes in and out of gear with no issues at all. And yes, as soon as rpms rev up just a little, noise does go away. So I’m just gonna run it, and as long as it’s going in and out of gear without issues, not gonna worry about it until I have to. Thanks for the replies guys


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Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:02 am
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Post Hdr knocking sound in reverse
flashman252 wrote:
So I pulled the back cover and no screws seem to be backing out anywhere. The magnets seem to have quite a bit of play. Not sure if there are supposed to be seals or anything to stabilize them. Motor goes in and out of gear with no issues at all. And yes, as soon as rpms rev up just a little, noise does go away. So I’m just gonna run it, and as long as it’s going in and out of gear without issues, not gonna worry about it until I have to. Thanks for the replies guys


That’s not the planetary nor the small bolts I was referencing.

These are what I was talking about (behind the rotor). If you tug the rotor it may move some which would indicate these are lose.

I can’t imagine the magnets being lose would cause that issue. If it knocks at low RPMs but not higher, that’s a clear sign something is lose along the rotational axis.

I don’t have a mudbuddy, but I’ve run a few and I don’t remember ever noticing a knocking in reverse. That would be a concern for me.

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Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:30 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I guess I'll dig into it a little further. I'll keep you all updated on what I find. I wont be able to do this until Friday. Again, thanks for all the help. It is much appreciated.


Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:03 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I made the first hdr retro, HD to HDR, their is s short noise for to the rhe magnets pushing against rotor, engaging planetary. I will PM you my email, send the video, and I'll get back to you.

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Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:03 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
So stop running that thing, the video has a very distinct knock, that is not associated with a normal reverse on the HDR. I advise pulling the planetary and insuring proper torque and fastener count.

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Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:07 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Also I believe an ounce and a half of oil goes into the planetary, when fully disassembled.

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Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:55 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
DMAX, I was told an ounce and 3/4 by the mechanic at backwater. He said if you take one nut off at the 12 o clock position and turn and start to see drops around the 4 o clock position, then there should be adequate fluid. He also wants me to ensure there is no play in the rotor and if there is to check screws on the planetary. Either way, I am going to do all of this on Friday when I have a day off to dig into it a little further. As far as play in the magnets, there is supposed to be some and there is a little in my frame. I'll be sure to take lots of pics in the process and update you guys on what I find.

Also, I will throw this out there but I was told that the HDR's are getting quieter in reverse due to little changes that mudbuddy makes each year. He said that the 2016's were louder than what you hear on the 5000 efi HDR that I have to compare to. I do not know honestly, but again I will dig into it further and keep you all updated.

The help is greatly appreciated guys. I know I keep saying that but this is all great info.


Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:32 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
So I had the first hdr retro kit and mine was not near that loud, nor was it as knocking noise, more of a howl. That 1/4 extra ounce is fine and that clocking method is correct.

I would highly recommend you take the main bolt out of the planetary. It's a 5/8 I believe and impact is handy. This is to ensure the bolts holding the planetary in the planetary housing put, blue sky attacked a picture earlier in this thread.

Take your focus off the magnets, that's not your issue, and look into the planetary. A new gasket will most likely be necessary

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Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
The ones I've come across have a knocking noise ONLY at idle. Could be lash between gears ect. Any thing above idle it was just normal gear noise from the helical cut gears. Also the magnets rely on pins pressed in the cover to locate everything.

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Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:18 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Just got a new 40 HDR this year. When in reverse, at idle, mine has a knocking sound as well. Was told by the dealer it's just the magnets knocking and nothing to worry about. The knocking goes away at higher RPM's.


Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:02 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Lots of mixed reviews here now. Either way, I will dig into it and check fluid levels and at least get the rotor off and ensure that none of the screws on the planetary are backing out. I went ahead and uploaded the small crappy video I took onto youtube. The link is here. Hopefully this helps with some saying its normal and others saying absolutely something is wrong with mine. And I have only started it up twice, first time being in this video and second time I did rev it up a little and knock went away instantly once RPM's got a little higher like multiple of you are saying. Link is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xANakFm9SaE


Also, it does look like the prop is spinning a lot and I know video with a phone distorts prop spin. But it was actually pretty windy this day and was causing the prop to spin pretty fast in neutral. When I started it the second time, it barely spun in neutral which I have seen on other HDR's as well.


Wed Feb 27, 2019 2:30 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Sounds exactly like what I mentioned above concerning my planetary being slightly lose.


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Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:41 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
bluesky, i am almost expecting to see some of the screws on the planetary backed out a little at this point. I am half tempted to call in tomorrow so I can tear it down and get to it. Friday can't come quick enough. I promise I will upload pics on what I find.


Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:30 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
If I’m not right, I’ll defer to Maxxis, will c, Russ or Dmax on this. Only mud buddy like that I’ve really got time with is Dmax’s, (I had an old MB longtail way back when).They know mud buddy’s better than I do (I have a GTR) but judging by the video I think that’s a fair possibility. It’s easy to remove the rotor, then PTO bolt, then slide it apart to expose the inside of the planetary. Takes maybe 5 mins. Have blue loctite ready then you’re good to go if that’s the issue.


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Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:42 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I don't have one of it out of water, but this is in the clay and mine has a hum. To me minewas more of hum than a clanking. Blue sky had the same clank on his gtr when a bolt came loose. Both gtr and hdr have planiteries that are similar. I would definitely pull apart

https://youtu.be/h8sPWRepWTk

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Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:40 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
trailer brake magnets, pins, only contacting one side of the rotor... They make noise. Yes a hum is normal as that's gear noise. The clanking is a combination of pin/ magnet slop and gear backlash from the irregular idle fluctuation. Give that mofo some gas lol

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Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:33 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Marcus he emailed me a video, I am more than willing to forward it to you, and you hear for yourself.

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Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Dmax, the video I sent you via email is the same video I uploaded to youtube finally and the link is listed in this thread. Anyone can go listen to it if they click on the link. I made the vid public so shouldnt need a password or anything to listen to it.


Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:55 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
DmaxHunter wrote:
Marcus he emailed me a video, I am more than willing to forward it to you, and you hear for yourself.

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Ill take a gander. Also if anything is loose you will feel the vibrations. from the excess unbalanced weight off the back of the crankshaft.

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Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:01 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
After hearing it, Yes that is not the normal Knock/ clunk that is usually there on the HDR. Sorry I didn't see the video link earlier. The ring gear bolts to the clutch puller/ gear, then the jackshaft slips onto the crank that is protruding from the forward clutch, then the planet carrier slip onto the jackshaft and into the ring gear and is all held together with a single bolt through the crank/ jack shaft. If its loose it will be pretty obvious.. Also Im wanting to say if the pulley/ ring gear bolt or bolts ar ebacking out you wil lonly hear the gridning in reverse as the unit spins as a whole in forward, it spings opposite in reverse causing the issue. It can happen as one HDR i took apart had previous evidence of this happening as i see the scars on the bolts. They are counter sunk cap screws 1/4" fine thread IIRC

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Fri Mar 01, 2019 6:07 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
So I dug into it. I got all the way to the screws in the planetary. All seem to be sunk down and really tight. So tight that I couldn’t break them loose without some real force. But I put blue lock tite on all of them. Was a little disappointed to see very little fluid come out when I drained the oil. I did replace with 48 ml, which is just above 1.5oz of fluid. I tightened the main nut that holds rotor on back to 55 lbs of torque. I have checked everything that’s been told to check and still same knocking noise. Only thing I couldn’t figure out how to get off is the sun gear. I realize I might need a hammer puller to get it off. But it was on there and I even tapped with rubber mallet and couldn’t get it to break loose. Otherwise I put it back together, tightened belt, and I will say the forward gear is more quiet now than before and that could be due to the lack of fluid that I drained originally. Any other thoughts guys? I swear it might just be the magnets. In the videos I will post today, it will be one of the back cover off showing how much play is in the magnets, and the second video will be of the knocking noise with motor running. You will see I put my hand on the back cover and the only place I feel vibration is where the magnets sit. I put my hand on the cover near the motor where the gears are and I don’t feel any vibration. Im not sure of this, but I’m half tempted to put a little silicone over where the magnets go on the pins and see if it stops the vibration or knocking noise, but I don’t want to do anything that won’t make them work effectively since I’m still truly unsure how the magnets work to make the reverse and forward happen on these motors.


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Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:21 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
More pics are f today. For some reason I can only post 3 at a time


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Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:23 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Here are the links to both vids I took today. First one is the motor running after I dig into it. Second is of the magnet play in the housing:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Cv_22crW3dk


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NDta92C4V88


Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:20 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Take the bolt and put it in the sun gear and that will give you something to push side to side and up and down to work it loose. Or a slide hammer

Did you happen to see any shavings debri?
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Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:09 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Dmax, I noticed shavings only when I took the drain nut off. I saw two there. Thinking uh oh this might be bad, I drained the oil and surprisingly didn’t see any more. When I took the rotor off and exposed the planetary nuts, I took a blue shop towel and ran it in between teeth on the planetary and the teeth on the rotor looking for some. I also soaked up all the left over oil in the planetary looking for shavings. Also, when I drained the original oil out, I poured it slowly into my big oil catch can over my fingers looking for shavings and didn’t see any. I saw two bitty shavings in the nut and that was it. Granted the oil was low as stated and seen in the pic. When I put everything back together, the teeth lined up tight, and when I was running the shop towel through the teeth, I was looking to see if there was any abnormal wear in any of the teeth. I did my damn best today to find a problem. Again, being the first time I’ve ever dug into one of these things, I had to go off of what could look abnormal but nothing did to me. And like I said, the only thing I couldn’t achieve was getting the sun gear off and I didn’t even thing about putting the nut back in and trying to work it back and forth. Any other suggestions and I will do it at this point. It’s actually a pretty simple little project to take care of. And a quart of oil will outlast these motors lifespan. Doesn’t take much.


Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
That sun gear is a slip on keyed shaft, they tend to get stuck.

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Sat Mar 02, 2019 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Dmax, I do realize that. If the nuts on the planetary are sunk and tight and not needing to be checked, is there a reason I need to go back in and take the sun gear out and check for anything else? Like I said, I went through each tooth very closely, none of the planetary screws seem to be backed out, i put everything back together to specs for as far in as I could go. What would be the benefit at this point in taking it all apart and checking anything that would be behind the planetary. Im willing to do so on wednesday (my next day off) but at this point, I couldn't see anything that looked out of norm based on what people have told me to check on this thread. I was thinking about pasting some velcro (the soft side of velcro obviously) and see if it got rid of some of the knock to see if the rattling magnets are what could be causing the knocking. Again, there is quite some play in all of the magnets.


Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:07 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I mean in all honesty, I dont care if it makes noise as long as its not tearing itself apart on the inside. When I heard the knock, I was worried. Obviously some were also worried when they heard the knock on the videos. So I did dig into it. I was expecting to see planetary bolts backed out, and I didnt. I expected to see teeth on gears torn apart and worn out, didnt see that either. I made sure the main nut that held the rotor on was torqued down to specs. I made sure there was no oil leak and after making the video, I even took the back cover off to ensure I didnt see any oil leaking. I didn't see any of this. If there is anything behind the planetary that could cause the knock, then by all means, I will listen and take any advice I need to and will dig further. I just need more guidance at this point. And I am sorry I am a newbie to this but I have been honest about that and I do appreciate all the help everyone has given at this point. Seriously it is much appreciated.


Sat Mar 02, 2019 7:10 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Your doing well for a newbie, there is some good guidance on this forum if approached correctly.

So I can see where your coming from, however if you research. Briggs are notorious for case issues, you add in vibration i.e. out of balance prop, bad bearings, get where I'm going. If you have vibration when in reverse, I would dig deeper.

If you can find someone close with another hdr of same transom height, you could swap covers and see if its really the magnets.

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Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:26 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Dmax, I did think that maybe it was an out of balance prop and I do have a friend with the exact same cover. plan on going out on saturday and finally getting mine in the water now that it has warmed up a little. If it was an out of balance prop, wouldnt it make some sort of noise or at least have a vibration in forward as well? I need to start studying diagrams and see where bearings might be. I do plan on changing covers with my buddy on saturday and seeing if the noise is the same when I put his cover plate on mine and vice versa. I plan on keeping you all updated on what I find if anything after saturdays run on the lake. I gotta get the trailer all situated as well once i get the boat off it. But I will do some browsing around on case issues with briggs and see what I can find that could be related to what I am experiencing as well.

And I just think if there was an issue with the motor, I'd feel vibration in both forward and reverse. I am sure I am wrong on this thinking. But I planned on running this prop for the summer and then maybe getting a balanced prop from maybe a guy i keep seeing by the name of baggy?


Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:18 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Ran the boat yesterday for a few hours. Had 0 issues and put it into the nastiest stuff I could find on a river here. Reverse was surprisingly a lot quieter when in water and worked fine. The unit went in and out of gear without any issues at all. Still some knock and was maybe a little louder knock than my buddies 5000 efi, but certainly not near the noise I was getting when out of water. I have not turned it on and put it in reverse out of water again. All in all the whole unit worked flawlessly and with a stock 37efi, was able to get 28 with just me in the boat and 26 with 3 guys in the boat with the stock big blade that I am sure isn't worked and may be unbalanced (who knows). Overall pretty happy with results. Just throwing this out there, but only thing I did notice is if I ran full throttle and let off instantly, it would back fire once. My last little koehler would do the same thing but that thing was old and who knows the ungodly amount of hours it had on it. Should I be worried about this? I checked belt tension before this run and it was around 12 lbs. I did tighten it up to 18 lbs. Thats the only minor adjustment I made before this run.


Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:36 am
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
Be careful on belt tension,to me on the loose side is better so it doesn't overload case cover bearing.


Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:46 pm
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Post Re: Hdr knocking sound in reverse
I would get belt tension at 15ish, they are kevlar and once they stretch that's it.

So you are right it only doing in reverse means it's not rhe motor.

However, I still know a knock is not a normal sound. These planetary units make a distinct noise, to me it's more a gear howl. That's totally normal, a knock usually means something is hitting on revolutions. I.e. out of round, something loose, etc.

Get back when you change the cover, I don't think it's the magnets. Be good to rule that out, because it's then planetary setup.

I would run out of water so you can compare the noise level.

Baggy makes a great prop, highly recommended.




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Tue Mar 12, 2019 8:39 pm
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