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| Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI http://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45620 |
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| Author: | muddoctor [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 8:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
I know there has been a lot of fuss'n about the new generation PD speed and a lot of discussion about different props needed, but here are some real numbers for our rigs with the new motors and the EFI set-ups and EFI with our head, intake and exhaust. Testing conditions: Location: Mississippi River just below Lock and Dam #13 at Clinton Iowa - Main Channel for deep water with wind and current, both directions average speed. Out of wind and current - East side of river - North end of Cattail Slough at Fulton, shallow dead end bay of Cattail with 1-2 feet of water going to no water in mud far north. Every test run is on the exact same GPS track for each location. #1 Boat 1860 Phowler Extreme with stock Gen 3 Prodrive carb model. Standard Equipment, including tank, battery, lines, gun box etc. Average Man Weight was 220 lbs each One man -26 MPH deep water Two Men - 25.5 MPH deep water Three Men - 24.6 MPH deep water Four Men - 24.1 MPH deep water Five Men - 22.6 MPH Deep Water In deep water we had no prop slip and the boat planed out in less then a boat length with up to four men, maybe 3 boat lengths with the five man load. We gained 2-3 mph out of wind and current in 1-2' of water. In the mud the motor just digs like a tractor, 1/4 throttle with the 3 blade trimmed down and boat is going, start moving and crack to 1/2 throttle and it is up on step. Average RPM Range: 4250-4350 best speeds regardless of load. Boat # 2 - 1860 Phowler Extreme withCX36 Gen 3 PD Stock EFI Standard Equipment, including tank, battery, lines, gun box etc. Average Man Weight was 220 lbs each One man -28.5 MPH deep water Two Men - 27.8 MPH deep water Three Men - 27 MPH deep water Four Men - 26.4 MPH deep water Five Men - 25.2 MPH Deep Water In deep water we had no prop slip and the boat planed out at once with up to four men, maybe 2 boat lengths with the five man load. We gained 3-4 mph out of wind and current in 1-2' of water. Hit 30.5 with one man in a foot of water. In the mud the motor just digs like a tractor, with the EFI it will idle in the deep mud and junk, 1/4 throttle (3200 RPM or so) with the 3 blade trimmed down and boat is going, start moving and crack to 1/2 throttle and it is up on step and right up to 4400 RPM. Boat # 3 - 2060 Phowler Extreme with a full hard blind (220 lbs) fully grassed with CX36 Gen 3 PD EFI with Illowa Heads and Exhaust Standard Equipment, including tank, battery, lines, gun box etc. Additional Equipment - 4 dozen duck decoys, 1 dozen goose decoys, stove, heaters, 20# propane tank, robos, poles, and all hunting gear for each guy. Average Man Weight was 230 lbs each (one guy is over 275). One man -27.5 MPH deep water (before the blind was added this boat hit 29.7 with just one man out of wind and current). Two Men - 26.9 MPH deep water Three Men - 25.5 MPH deep water Four Men - 24.5 MPH deep water This is a big blind set-up that catches a lot of air, we estimate it was carrying around 1500-1650 lbs with the blind, people, decoys and equipment. In deep water we had no prop slip and the boat planed out at once with three men, blind and gear in about three boat lengths, with four it took about 20 yards. We gained 3-4 mph out of wind and current in 1-2' of water. In the mud the motor just digs still digs like a tractor, even with the big blind and gear, with the EFI it will idle in the deep mud and junk, 1/4 throttle (3200 RPM or so) with the 3 blade trimmed down and boat is going, start moving and crack to 1/2 throttle and it is up on step and right up to 4400 RPM. With the head, intake and exhaust this big rig jump right out of the hole in shallow water and mud/weeds. Boat #4 - 1860 Phowler with Phowler TCBS Light Marsh Blind HARD BLIND (170 LBS)with all the extras WITH UPGRADED 2012 PD X36. THIS IS A 2012 PRODRIVE X36 WITH GEN 2 GEAR BOX WITH NEW EFI, 4700 COILS AND ILLOWA HEADS AND EXHAUST AND OLD STYLE 3 BLADE PROP. Standard Equipment, including tank, battery, lines, gun box etc. Average Man Weight was 220 lbs each This rig before the addition of the EFI and Illowa Performance Kit would run 22 mph with two men and gear, 17-18 mph with three men and had trouble planning with four men. Results after adding EFI, Illowa Kit and 3 blade prop. One man -28 MPH deep water Two Men - 27.2 MPH deep water Three Men - 26.5 MPH deep water Four Men - 25.7 MPH deep water In deep water we had no prop slip and the boat planed out in 1-2 boat lengths with up to four men. We gained 2 mph out of wind and current in 1-2' of water. Hit 30 with one man in a foot of water. In the mud the motor stayed hooked up, not a well as with the GEN 3 box and blade, we had to keep under rev limit trimmed down at 1/4 -1/2 throttle until the prop stayed hooked up good, then slowly trim up to jump on step. Just like the new motors with the EFI it will idle in the deep mud and junk, 1/4 throttle (3600 RPM or so) with the smaller 3 blade trimmed down and boat is going, start moving and crack to 1/2 throttle and it is up on step and right up to 4600 RPM. This rig with the smaller three blade runs right at 4400-4500 top speed, regardless of load. I have heard of guys not having enough prop for these new set-ups and the Gen 3 gear box (i.e. no getting the top end speeds or having to stay trimmed down to keep RPMs under 4600), but that is not the case with our larger rigs up here. I could see this being an issue with a smaller boat with a much lighter load, but we are seeing pretty impressive improvements with all the different combinations we have tested so far. Speed is great, but not at the expense of performance with big loads for our customers with these large boats with blinds and 3-4 men. These motors, and the old motors with new EFI kits) are moving these big loads as well, if not better then any previous performance motors we have run (and we have run them all, from all the different brands and all the different mod options, all the way to MB 7000 and the PD and GT motors with Stage 3 set-ups with cams, pistons, roller rockers and mikuni carbs). Yes we sell PD primarily, so I am a bit bias, but the numbers are the numbers, anyone who knows me and how we do business knows we don't bs on the numbers and loads. Most folks know that PD is working on more prop options for these new set-ups and for the retro fits to older motors, we will be testing these also to see how they do, IMHO, with our bigger rigs with big loads we think the current prop is pretty spot one, so any improvements will be icing on the cake. PW |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 10:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
Nice reviews and certainly nice performance with those loads! I'm just having a hard time convincing myself I need to spend another $1900 for the Gen 3 upgrade and/or another $2000 for the EFI! I wish this stuff would have been available a year ago when I bought mine! Sent using Morse Code from my not so smart phone. |
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| Author: | brasso [ Thu Sep 19, 2013 11:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
Itd be well worth it with your boat! |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
| Author: | Wildberry [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
Damn good review ! |
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| Author: | muddoctor [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
I do agree, the cost to updating and motor is steep. We have done two with just the EFI, no new L/U, added head and exhaust (one of them is noted in the reviews) and it made a world of difference. I have been telling folks that is the motor is only a year to two old, it might be better to sell it for the best price you can get and order a new one with all the upgrades. Still gonna cost some money out of pocket, but it is about a wash if run the numbers. I have had alot of folks say they wish this stuff was out last year, but in all honestly, this stuff was done at PD almost two years ago, I ran the prototypes down there and tested one all spring up here, but unlike some other companies, they ran this stuff for almost two years working out all the little issues and reworking stuff BEFORE they decided to make it available to the public this summer. I guess I would rather have it that way vs. the issues some other folks are running into with stuff rushed to the market place. PW |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
Point well made! Sent using Morse Code from my not so smart phone. |
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| Author: | berretax35 [ Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
I've always wanted to haul my boat up there and go above the lock on the Illinois side looks like you can ride for ever back up in there Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4 |
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| Author: | littledrenth [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
What's a new PD 36 with auto FPR cost now days? |
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| Author: | Kmoppert [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
| Author: | goosie119 [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
Good review Paul. I fall into the no mans land category too, my motor is a '12 and will have around 35 hours on it when duck season ends on 12-01. I'm still kicking around whether I want to do heads/EFI/exhaust, heads/cam/exhaust, or just sell it and buy a new motor. Too many options... |
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| Author: | tchauvin [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
| Author: | muddoctor [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
These are all with stock props, the new three blade on the new GEN3 gearbox and the old three blade on the GEN 2 gearbox. Again, our boats with stuff in them seem to stay under the rev box, but I am sure a lighter, smaller empty hull might need more prop. PW |
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| Author: | muddoctor [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
| Author: | Kmoppert [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
| Author: | BlueShamu [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
Old 3 blade on the Gen II gearbox??? Can I see?? Sent using Morse Code from my not so smart phone. |
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| Author: | tchauvin [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
| Author: | BlueShamu [ Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
These seem like pretty heavy rigs....like mine. I really would like to see what a stock Gen III does with my rig and a little load. Sent using Morse Code from my not so smart phone. |
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| Author: | PhilD [ Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Phowlers with New Gen Pro-Drive and Pro-Drive EFI |
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