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| Kits http://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=69013 |
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| Author: | QuentinA875 [ Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Kits |
I've got a 14' skiff in looking to put a long tail on. I'm sure the typical small 7 horse will do just fine. Myself, dog, decoys and not much else. I'm seriously considering a predator and kit project but have read a few posts where people just bash them. Im.hoping for some actual legit feedback beyond, they suck and are poorly made. I'm looking for specifics as to why they suck and what makes the go devils etc so much better. Bearings, reinforcements, paint etc. Please be specific and thank you in advance. We're talking the difference between a 400 dollar project and a1200 dollar purchase. Id just like to know what the 800 is getting me. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
I personally just put together a Mudskipper kit with the 13hp 420cc predator engine from Harbor Freight. This is my FIRST longtail. Kit or otherwise. I have nothing but great things to say about the Predator engines, but also the Mudskipper company. The customer support at Mudskipper is unparalleled. As with any "do-it-yourself" kit there should be SOME mechanical skill before undertaking this, but everything went together relatively easy. I went with the Predator engines because they are "Honda clones" and you can get myriad aftermarket parts for them that you can't get for other motors. I have a 14& 1/2 foot fiberglass skiff that's a modified v. One thing about these lontails, to achieve outboard performance, you need a bit larger mud motor than the outboard equivalent. So to really push that boat, you would want the 420cc predator engine setup. Put it like this, to out perform my 6hp evinrude I had to go with the setup I have. The dynamics of a longtail are different, and the way they push a boat are somewhat different. But I have NOTHING but great things to say about BOTH companies involved in making my mud motor setup. I bought ALL the extras, header loop exhaust, cavitation plate, and bigger prop and I have almost $1100 into it. You can get by with $900 for the motor, and kit from them. There are other longtail kit companies, but after the superb customer service at Mudskipper I can't recommend anyone else, and same with the engine. |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Also Quentin, the numbers I quoted are for the 13hp. If you are dead set on a 7ish horsepower setup then you will have less into it. You will be in your budget range. But I get 17mph in my boat with my buddy who is 6ft 4 and weighs 260. With him, me, the motor, fuel, camping gear and supplies I get the 17 I was telling you about. It's a little over 800 pounds loaded like that. I am very impressed with the performance, and I am very glad I went with the 13 as opposed to something smaller. |
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| Author: | QuentinA875 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Thanks for the input marshal. When I say skiff, I'm talking tapered bow and stern tapered like a canoe. This is a far cry from a John boat and cuts the water well even with a paddle. I'll check out mud skipper. Thanks again for the advice Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 12:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Quentin, my skiff is very similar to what you are referring to about your design. Mine also paddles extremely easy. It has a v bow, but when you look underneath it looks like a canoe bottom. I can tell you that if I went with a lower horsepower motor, I would not be as happy as I am with the extra power. It was worth the extra couple hundred. I also splurged on some of the extra stuff that could have been bought over time. There are other kit companies you can check out, but I don't know of they can beat the customer service at Mudskipper. I am pro-longtail now, and am encouraging you to do the same. I just know that once you invest the time and money into this and you take it out, you are going to have a level of expectation that will need to be achieved. I was lucky and got it. I also looked at various websites for longtail mud motors that are professionally produced. That's what made me decide on the extra power. Check out Mud-Buddy, Go--Devil, or some of the other manufacturers to get some idea of performance specs. |
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| Author: | QuentinA875 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
I'll take it into account. I've got 9 days left in my season up here, so this will be a winter project. Plenty of time to shop and compare, heat dropped in here for some personal input. Thanks again for the heads up. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | flint87 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 3:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
I just got a swamp runner kit with a 6.5 predator. Got it on a 12 foot Jon. Great solo rig. 17 mph with me and decoys. I have had godevil long tails from 16-25 hp on larger boats and yes I much prefer them. They can take a beating and the shaft is much shorter, also the balanced frame on a godevil is great. The Thai kits are not balanced. Whole motor is less than 80 lbs and easy to drag over rocks and sand bars. Also the motor swings inside the hull. Not overly impressed with the predator but it runs quiet and gets the job done. Buy lots of spare props with the Thai kits. They break easy. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | aknative [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Closely compare Swamp Runner and Mud Skipper, and give Backwater and Stump Jumper a look as well. Do you have pictures of your boat? Is it aluminum? There are definitely 14 foot boats out there that will support and even need more horses. I have a 1432 that I I don't think I'd put more than a 212 Predator on with my Swamp Runner. Might try a 301 on a pond some time just to see, but I would not put a 420 on there. Flint, how is your Swamp Runner not balanced? Should be adjustment holes on the engine base to adjust for balance. I've beat mine on gravel, logs, ice. I haven't broken a prop yet, dinged them up pretty good. It won't be a surprise when I break one, I keep several spares. The 212 on my 14 footer has pushed me, some traps, gas, shotgun, chainsaw, down river at 21 MPH. It cruises comfortable at about 15-17 down river, 10-12 up river, depending on current and load. Here's my YouTube channel if you want to check it out. https://www.youtube.com/user/aknativehunk Be safe out there! |
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| Author: | QuentinA875 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Here's what I'm dealing with. Me, dog, and decoys. Not looking to squeeze a third in it. I hunt solo 75 percent of the time. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Seeing your rig, the Predator 212 should move you nicely. And it's a bit lighter too, compared to my setup. |
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| Author: | QuentinA875 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
| Author: | aknative [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
What's it's horsepower rating? Does it have a transom or would you have to build one sticking up out of the back deck? Just from the picture I wouldn't put bigger than a 212 on there, but I don't know much about those types of boats. Looks kind of like a kayak. Is that what you guys would call a sneak boat? |
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| Author: | QuentinA875 [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 11:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
| Author: | aknative [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
I hear skiff I think of a V bow on a planing hull, like Lunds from back home. Pulled this picture from the internet. lundformmt.jpg I guess it's a regional thing. |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Hey AKNative. I agree. What Quentin calls a skiff I call a sneak boat. I am an ex-commercial fisherman, and what you posted is more of what i call a skiff. I have worked on longlining boats, lobster boats, scallop boats, clam boats, draggers, you name it. I would post pics of my "skiff" but for some reason I am having trouble posting pictures. Yeah, on something like Quentin has, I surely wouldn't go over the Predator 212. |
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| Author: | Willie Rip [ Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
The Swamp Runner/Thai kits are balanced. You have to set them up right on the proper holes and prop size. The engine when up to rpm should be run with just two fingers because the prop itself adds hydrodynamic lift. At idle speeds you use a rope with a loop. That's common practice here and in Thailand. It's okay to prefer something else, but Thailand motors are a different type of motor that require a different way of thinking when using it. Each type motor does well based on its own merits. You can't say they aren't balance when your only definition of balance is western-style motors. Apples don't taste like walnuts. Well, of course, they're two different types of food. Both healthy and well made for their purpose, but the properties of one cannot be used measure against the other. That's why I put so many videos on Thailand-style mud motors on my YouTube channel, to help people understand what they're about, how to use them, add to the knowledge base, and help people make a decision whether this type of motor is for them or not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ku2EDWFSpQ |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
To agree with Willie rip, the Thai mud motors are their own type of design and like any piece of equipment will need to be learned in efficient operation. I am overly satisfied with my Mudskipper setup, powered with a predator 420cc engine. With a little handle adjustment, and the addition of a cavitation plate, I have found that there is no balance issue. Weight distribution on ANY boat is paramount, but on a small boat or skiff it can make all of the difference in how it will handle. Also there are sweet spots on longtails that vary from boat to boat and person to person. But I firmly believe if I bought a manufactured mud motor with the horses I am running, it would handle very similar and would not only be heavier, but would cost 4 or 5 times the money I have into my setup. I don't have a bad word to say about Mudskipper or Predator engines. |
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| Author: | flint87 [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Balanced at speed doesn't mean balanced in weight. If I drop my handle the whole thing goes vertical. Doesn't even have a bump stop. Thai motors are good for a budget and that's what I had for my little low river 2016 drought bullshit rig I had to come up with but, I wouldn't ever have one as my main setup. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | Marshall [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 3:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
I am curious what company out there produces a longtail motor that stays horizontal when you let go of the operating handle, or tiller arm? |
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| Author: | flint87 [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
| Author: | Willie Rip [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
flint, you just proved my point. The loop roped solves the problem of the motor going vertical when you let go. The rope is the bump stop. Thai-style motors are not your preference. They would never serve your needs nor should they ever be used as your main rig for all the reason you state, but that's you and your preference. However, it is my main rig, and I would never use anything else for the reason you stated and several others as well documented on my YouTube channel. But I won't bash other motors simply because they don't fit my needs. I simply look at them for what they are, their original purpose, and make a decision based on its ability to fit my needs. It doesn't mean the other motors are worse. They're just different and well suited for the application. For instance a Walleye handliner or lead core trolling would have a nightmare using a longtail outboard, especially the way they do it on the Detroit River. They'd constantly get tangles in the prop., lines cut, and probably curse the day they were born. Catfishermen dragging baits with many rods out the back of the boat would have many of the same problems. It's a motor poorly fit for their needs. For me, I side troll, side drift and boondog like the guys down on Lake Eufaula, AL do for crappie and the salmon steelhead guys out in the Pacific northwest. The motor never becomes an issue. In fact the long tail off the back hung on a rope acts as effectually as the drift sock off the bow to slow the boat down in high wind and current. It works better for that purpose than a traditional outboard. It has helped me catch way more fish. The one thing you see as a downside actually helps me in my fishing methods. Different problems yield different solutions. The solution for you creates problems for me. The solutions for me creates problems for you. Neither solution is bad, just different. Again you proved my point. |
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| Author: | flint87 [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
| Author: | Marshall [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
I am really satisfied with my Mudskipper setup. It has performed well and I don't know if any company out there can beat their customer service. Different people have different preferences, but if me spending an extra $3000 or more for the equivalent just to see it sit horizontally when I let go is not that interesting to me. Yes, I am sure there are more expensive motors of "better quality", but compare a Jeep to a Range Rover. One is just a tad more comfortable than the other, but BOTH get it done and BOTH have a loyal fanbase. Like I said , my Mudskipper setup has performed like I wanted and then some. And I put it together myself. Makes it a little more personal to whoever gets one and makes it work. |
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| Author: | Willie Rip [ Tue Nov 29, 2016 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Kits |
Marshall, that was one of my main things. I wanted to work on the entire motor myself. I can tear down the entire motor including the powerhead and rebuilding quickly by myself with average-guy tools under a shade tree, not to mention running a enough horsepower to blow the dang thing up. Flint, I see what you're saying. That makes sense. |
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