[quote][/quote] Hi I am new to mud motors. I have been looking to get 1 for my 1436 jon. And want to get people's thoughts about PFF or Backwater swamp lite. Or anything else. Thanks.

Hear good reviews on the PPF, I have a BW 26.5 EFI on my 1648 jon- great platform! They have several smaller HP motors and kits available. Check out their site and they listen and can answer questions.

I just went through this exact same decision, if you scroll down you will see my posts about it. I did a ton of research, talked to both companies. I ended up buying the ppf and couldnt be happier. I will explain my decision and in no way am I bashing backwater, i want to say that up front. i also run it on a 1436 (tracker topper)

1. Weight, the ppf is 22.5 lbs lighter which when running some rigs and looking at speed it really comes down to weight. Some people will say well ppf weight is with a dry engine and they are much closer in weight, well here is the comparison of the two with same dry predator 212.

ppf- frame 21.5 lbs
motor 38 lbs
total 59.5 lbs

backwater frame 44 lbs
motor 38 lbs
total 82 lbs

2. transom mount- although the backwater has a great mount, for my application and a small 6.5 hp engine i wanted simple and light, and although the mount on the backwater is very well engineered, for the application of a small rig and motor it is unneccesary in my opinion when adding the xtra weight.

3. Bearings/grease - I read alot about the ppf being dirty and after talking with jake at ppf he said that was in some of his first frames he built and he has a sealed bearing system know and that isnt an issue.

4. Visual evidence (most important) there are so many videos out there of the ppf in so many situations, ppf has some vids of him just beating the crap out of it and just performing like a champ, mud, ice, vegitation, open water, you name it there is a vid out there performing in it. Backwater vids for the 6.5 are hard to come by and the only ones I have seen were in open water and too be honest i was dissapointed at the speeds i saw it getting.

Hopefully this helps and I have zero affiliation with either company, my advice is call both places, and tell them your application. i will say that i posted about this somewhere and how i hunt, and Jake from ppf actually contacted me to help. He said I sounded like I hunt just like him and that is what he built the ppf for.

There's like 5 videos of the backwater 6.5 running Ice mud veggies and jumping logs. At the end of the day though, a longtail is just a lawnmower engine turning a prop at the end of a shaft. Normal use isn't going to break any of the frames


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PPF is a straight shaft drive and the backwater has a joint at the engine shaft to make the shaft shorter. I had a 1436 that I made into a 1536 by adding a single pod across the back. I went with the SwampRunner kit due to it being a PPF kit style but a cheaper and heavier.... there is less to go wrong and break in the Straight shaft kits. I guess one thing to realize is with a 6.5-15hp motor YOU ARENT PUSHING A LOAD THROUGH MUD.... there isn't enough balls to the motor to get it to do that. so these lower HP kits really are "shallow water" kits... the longer straight shaft pushes from the crest of the wake behind the boat whereas a backwater pushes from below the boat. so even over a harder bottom you will get better bite with the prop bc you are pushing from a higher point. Also, you aren't pushing the front of the boat down bc the drive is from straight behind the boat rather than below the boat driving vertically. There is a big difference in the process when thinking about it that way.

Obviously you know the water you will be working, but id recommend the PPF or SwampRunner kit over the backwater simply bc the backerwater is likely over-engineered for nearly all low HP usage.

my mistake, for some reason I thought the backwater had the u joint....

Also, the aluminum props are designed to be the sacrificial part of the system should you whack something. I'd MUCH rather shear a leaf on a $6 replaceable prop than bend the shaft bc ya just had to have one of those cool stainless props.

these aren't belt driven surface drives that can slip a little if you whack something with the prop. the impact HAS to be absorbed somewhere. better off losing a prop blade than replacing a shaft.

I understand your point of view since you are Backwater Prostaff....

A lot of people have hit a lot of stuff while running longtails. Rarely do these strikes cause damage to driveshafts. I'd rather replace a driveshaft once every blue moon than be constantly having to replace props. Enjoy your rig if it works for you.

It's unobtanium.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like they are both good options and both companies make a good product. Tuff decision. I would like to know if the weight of the backwater makes it slower than the PFF. I appreciate the help.

I think the one where the prop is likely to stay in one piece will probably run better.

to follow up on that, I ran 50hrs on an ALL ROCK RIVER and never broke off a blade on the prop. put some dings in it, but I also put some dings in my new SS prop on my surface drive. All of my info is spoken from lots of experience and research, not a prostaff sponsorship.

I ended up buying the ppf and it has been nothing but a head ache trying to install the kit . motor will not mount to frame. Anyone else had this problem?

Did you buy the right engine?
I think I remember seeing on their website a list of what motors will work with each frame.

You get what you pay for.....

Predator 212

You know it's bad when the motor they recommend won't fit the frame. I hope they will take it back.

They have plenty to compare it to. They can compare the many guys who have previously owned other brands of long tails and then made the switch to Backwater to the minority group that will forever cling to their brand of long tail. Don't you really think if Go-Devil long tails were still as awesome as they once were, there would be more than 2 or 3 guys on this forum saying so? People can praise or shame Backwater just as easy as they can Go-Devil. It's free speech bruh. I believe impartial parties can see that the ranting and raving over Backwater is warranted due to the fact that Backwater is overall a better product when compared to others in the same product category. If someone wants to buy a new long tail, they should drive as many as they can and then make their decision from there.

I don't no anything about other mudmotors other than backwater, but I did my own research and it took me about 2 years to make my decision. The only problem I have had with my motor is bad gas and the grease fitting slung out of the u-joint made a hell of a noise because of the shield. Replaced it with new one and fresh grease. No problems since and drive it every weekend.

Go Backwater for this simple reason....

They have never had a warranty claim on any of their longtails....NEVER.

Y'ALL STOP BLOWING SMOKE UP PEOPLE'S ASSES!!!!!

Backwater is a good group of guys!

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you 2 are like a bunch of women!

Takes more than some dude pushing a 30 year old long tail design to get me flustered, bruh. I'm completely fine with flint saying he prefers a Go-Devil. They're solid motors and he's got his opinion. He has admitted that he doesn't like when myself or others brag about Backwater or try to inform others on why we think Backwater makes a better designed long tail. I hate having to go back and forth with this guy as much as others hate reading about it, but the guy doesn't want others to have an opinion and I won't be silenced. Happy Saturday morning, everyone.

Just couldn't help myself!!! I ran a 16hp GDLT for almost 15 yrs. Rear seals replaced 1-2 times a year. Replaced shaft and both bushings once. replaced coils once, removed and cleaned carb a lot, replaced carb once. Wore out countless props never broke one. Not saying GD is better but that is my only experience with LT's. Seen Backwater and the GoDevils in action and would be a toss up to which one I would get. Probably the one with the most HP for least amount of money.

I have an 18 year old Go-Devil......








And still fish my prop and shaft off the bottom of the marsh because of non-evolutionary design.

Lmao you all arguing over your motors that work. Mine brand new won't even mount to the frame. Now that's a real problem

Right! But just remember Mine, what ever it is, is bigger, better, badder, and faster than anyone elses POS!