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| Another Boating Tragedy http://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=65234 |
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| Author: | WAD SHOOTER [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 9:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Another Boating Tragedy |
I saw these fellas put in this morning and came up on the game wardens searching for him. Story is he had waders on and they hit something. Threw him out and he couldn't swim. Please guys don't wear your waders in the boat. I don't care what video you watched on youtube and for God's sake wear a life jacket especially in the dark and when its cold. I was on a boat that flipped and sank in the middle of the chattahoochee river in the dark one morning when the water temp was 38. None of us had life jackets and after a 100yd swim I vowed to wear a life jacket. I got lucky, but not everyone does. Be safe guys.http://wjtv.com/2016/01/03/one-man-dies ... al-forest/ |
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| Author: | BlueShamu [ Sun Jan 03, 2016 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Sad news. I am rarely riding without my inflatable or vest during warm weather and float coat during cold weather. Most liberals seem to suffer from the same mental condition....it's called stupidity! |
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| Author: | lizard55033 [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 1:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Wearing Neoprene waders in the boat is just fine; but always wear that life jacket. Neoprene waders will help you float. Thats way I never recommend those "breathable" or rubber waders exspecially up here in MN. |
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| Author: | Quack N Stack [ Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Just saw another one of a country music singer. Decided he wanted to go duck hunting in those bad storms and capsized boat. |
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| Author: | med [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Mother nature makes quick work of those that make bad decisions. In certain conditions the margin for error is extremely small. |
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| Author: | CLICKSTER [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
even with breathable waders if you have wader belt on it creates a bubble and holds air down in waders to help float. I have jumped in during the summer to try it. |
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| Author: | duck_watcher12 [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I'm guilty of not wearing a life jacket most of the time, but if I'm in a new place or somewhere that's changed alot |
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| Author: | Will [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | Will [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | dirtysouth pipeliner [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | med [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | MNGunner [ Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | jakehawk9 [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I don't agree with either of those statments. The weight of the rubber boots at the bottom offsets whatever flotation you believe neoprene has. Having been in the water with my waders full, I promise they don't provide flotation. They act as an anchor if they fill up. Further more you can't swim in them, let alone the weight of your soaking wet coat and clothes. I get while the weight of the water in your waders in neutralized while you're actually in the water. Just saying. They damn sure didn't float me. It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face. |
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| Author: | dirtysouth pipeliner [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | dirtysouth pipeliner [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | krazo [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
It's the struggle that sinks ya not the rubber and neoprene. How many times you found a rubber ball at the bottom of a pool? With that said it's very hard to stay calm and float in cold water in the dark when all you shit is floating away and your worried about your buddy. 20 years ago I never left the ramp without my vest on but over the years I have gotten away from the habit. I have decided I will start back wearing my vest. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | dirtysouth pipeliner [ Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Definitely opened my eyes wont leave the ramp without one on. |
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| Author: | MNGunner [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 6:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | WAD SHOOTER [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
The problem is the air bubble that is created in the boots/legs. You will fight to keep your legs down to keep your head up. Either way this fella died due to his waders. Buy yourself a pair of bibs and wear a life jacket. When you get to your hole put your waders on and go hunting. No sense in flirting with danger. It's your life, but I do know that I value mine and I'd hate to have my family go through what this guy's family is going through. This was one of my students sisters boyfriend and it's been tough to watch and know it could have been prevented. |
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| Author: | WAD SHOOTER [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I'd hate to be in the middle of drowning with my waders and think I wish I didn't have these one. If you insist on wearing them keep a pocket knife in them or in a jacket pocket close by to cut them off if needed. |
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| Author: | Russ [ Thu Jan 07, 2016 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I've been in the water, in waders, and they were full. Swimming normally in them is extremely difficult once water is in them because of the mass of water and the resistance of the boot. However, if you have a pfd on, it doesn't matter if your feet float from an air bubble. Your head will stay at the surface. Without the waders, you lose a layer of potential insulation, as the water will warm from your body heat, and the neoprene won't let it cool off as quick. If the water is cold, I'll be wearing waders. No, I can't hardly swim like an Olympic swimmer in them, but they provide flotation even filled with water that I wouldn't previously have otherwise, and help me stay warmer than without. Get in a pool or pond when it's warm, see how it works. Someone drowning BECAUSE they were in waders wasn't wearing a pfd correctly, or at all. And slowing the onset of hypothermia while I wait on rescue is far more important to me then if I can swim efficiently. If I'm not trying to stay afloat, because my gear is doing it for me, I can backstroke to land if there's no one around. If I can't make it to land, then not having them on wouldn't save me. Neoprene floats in water. Filling waders with something the same mass as what's outside it doesn't change that. And any air that might get trapped inside isn't going to send your head underwater if you have more flotation from your pfd in your neck/chest area. Now, what happened to these guys is very unfortunate, and sucks for their families and friends. Ducks aren't that important. Regardless of the events that led to it, it was avoidable with one simple choice to not go, and I hate it when it happens like that. Guys, be careful, and quit with the stupid choices that put you in those positions. |
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| Author: | jakehawk9 [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Yeah I still don't agree. My personal physics definitely did not match your scientific physics. They'll hold you under water if they're full and you all your hunting gear on. I found it extremely hard to keep my head above water. I can't recall what my legs were doing cuz I was freaking the freak out trying to get out of my waders before my buddy pulled me up. If you do it on purpose for a test you certainly dont have the freak out factor like when it happens on accident at 5 a.m. It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 6:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I've been through several different water survival courses in the military and in the civilian world and achieved the highest level of water survival qualification the Marine Corps had to offer. I'm here to tell you, gear helps. I've been in the water with waders more times than a few. A couple were on purpose, a couple weren't. The thin rubber/PVC waders don't help as much but they definitely won't sink you. Neoprene will most certainly keep you afloat. Ive been kicked out of a helo in the Chesapeake Bay in Feb in the middle of the night and told to find the way back. All the while inflatable boats with outboards circle and disorient the hell out of you. You are forced to get your bearings. Locate the horizon and gather your shit and go. I'm here to tell you that everyone in this training exercise would have drowned if it wasn't for all the gear that we were forced to enter the water with. Including the rifle and sidearm. Physics are physics and they don't change person to person, the "freak-out factor" is what changes things. When you panic all bets are off. You will sink like a brick. That being said, I'd much rather have a pair of insulated neoprene waders and PFD on if I end up in the drink at 4am. You'll move a little slower but you won't sink. The REAL dumbasses are the ones who carry pockets full of shotgun shells and crap while running the boat. Might as well be wearing concrete boots. |
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| Author: | jakehawk9 [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
[Quote=setxlongtail] The REAL dumbasses are the ones who carry pockets full of shotgun shells and crap while running the boat. Might as well be wearing concrete boots.[/quote] I was that guy when it happened to me. Had four boxes of shotgun shells on me, a Marsh seat, and my gun It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
........ Here's your sign......... |
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| Author: | dirtysouth pipeliner [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
The freakout of initially hitting the water is definitely a big factor. My buddy fell out of the boat one time ( stayed up the night before chasing lovely ladies lol). Hit the water and immediately told him to get on his back but he wouldn't all he did is stay upright and fight it. I eventually got him in the boat and the first thing he said was " It's like I never swam before I forgot everything". I think if you stay upgright the water will have a weight effect just like a sinking boat the water overcomes your buoyancy but the key is to stay on your back displace on the weight and allow the neoprene to help float. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Doesn't matter if you're standing upright like you're walking down a sidewalk, or laying on your back. It will provide a certain amount of buoyancy. Getting horizontal definitely helps but you're not going to the bottom based solely on the fact of how you're positioned in the water. You displace the same amount either way. The reason you've probably seen it happen this way is because you're not going to be calm laying on your back. If you're fighting the water you'll usually be upright. Once you get flipped over and face up you can just be still, control your breath and you'll float at about a 45deg angle with your head and shoulders at the top. A good PFD will position you this way. Those cheap-o Orange horse collar life vests are excellent for this reason. Which is why they are carries as spares in my boat. The trick is to not lose your shit when you go in. The natural reaction is to try to take a big breath when that cold water hits you, more often than not this is the beginning of the end when you do that and the fight is on. Staying calm helps more than anything else. |
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| Author: | Team Schmo [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
i will just add one thing, Wader belt.. Wear it.! They make a differnce.. |
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| Author: | MNGunner [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | MNGunner [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | jakehawk9 [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 9:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | MNGunner [ Fri Jan 08, 2016 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | dirtysouth pipeliner [ Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Sorry dude. But you're wrong. Neoprene is less dense than water. Even if your waders are full of water to the brim, they will still float. Standing or laying down makes no difference in the amount of water you displace. You will certainly enter the water faster standing and end up deeper initially but if you just wait a few seconds, you will return to the surface. It doesn't have a damn thing to do with any air bubble. If you can get air into the waders it will certainly help, sure, but that's not what determines IF it floats or not. You aren't arguing your point with me, you're arguing with the laws of physics. |
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| Author: | cb5331 [ Mon Jan 11, 2016 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Breathable waders are mo betta |
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| Author: | Pacer [ Mon Jan 11, 2016 12:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I went into the Wax just north of the ICW running in at night 2 years ago when I was by myself. I hit a log that pitched the boat sideways, and I was thrown. I was running a 60 outbaord, so probably around 30 mph. I was about 15' from the boat when I started swimming. I wear stocking foot waders, and they fit tight so I can move around better. I had a life jacket on and it was pulled tight. I was able to swim to the boat and pull myself in. I was dry below my waist because the waders were tight. They didn't help me swim, but they didn't drag me down either. I made several mistakes that night, and got lucky more than I should have. I can see where a loose fitting pair of large boot fit waders would make it impossible to swim especially if the top is large, and opens up when you are trying to move. I think the type and fit of the waders will make a big difference on how much they hinder your ability to swim. |
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| Author: | DUCK HEARSE [ Mon Jan 11, 2016 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Just a thought wet suits are made of neoprene with dive tank mask and fins you still need a weight belt to go down. |
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| Author: | WAD SHOOTER [ Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
It's not necessarily the water inside of the waders, it's all about which way you go into the water. Yes neoprene will float you, however if you go head first with neoprene on you will create an air bubble in your legs which will cause you to fight to keep your legs down and get your head out of water resulting in drowning. Also waders will hinder your ability to swim making it harder. When these type of situations happen you will not be expecting it so just wear a damn life jacket and try to use common sense. |
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| Author: | idabilly [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
I buy life jackets for use during the duck season in larger sizes than a jacket you'd wear in the summer. They will fit over two layers of jacket plus wader bibs without being too tight to properly fasten. Therefore, they actually get worn. |
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| Author: | med [ Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Another Boating Tragedy |
Interesting... Take a look. https://youtu.be/JVaVjbahApQ |
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