Just wanting some opinions on how realistic it is to finish my dog before November. I'm using the fowl dawgs DVDs . This is my first time using a system like this, my last dog was a "meat dog" nothing fancy. So far we've got obedience down really well, sit, here, heal, remote sit. Collar conditioning just about done. Working on "hold" during obedience drills now. Then planning to force fetch once hold is 100%.

It will never happen


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And that program is not what I would highly recommend


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in your eyes; define "finished dog"...

In your time frame that you have set; there is not a chance you'll have a "finished" dog before November.

Should be done with Force Hold and Force Fetch by then; depending on the dog that is...

Fowl dog series is a fine program to start. I fancy Graham's Smartworks. Lardy and Hillman put out great programs too.

Anything specific you don't like about it? It seems to be working for my dog REALLY well to this point. One thing I decided to change was to collar condition obedience before starting force fetch. Most of the forums I've read on seemed to agree that that is mostly personal preference. One factor though was that the whole DVD set was 80 bucks, some of those other dudes want $300 which is retarded to me.

Sorry, should have been more specific, I get that "finished" means something different for different folks. I'm not planning to run trials or anything. But I'd like to have her reliably following hand signals over decoys out to 80 yards or so. I got her last year at 10 months old about 2 months before season with zero training and tried to rush it which didn't do her or myself any favors. I've got plenty of time to train this year though.

"Hand signals" means blinds. No you won't be running blinds by then. You have about 2.5 months and if you're very lucky, you may get through force to pile but since you're not a pro, I doubt your foundation will be perfect so I'd slow down and aim to be through force fetch and pile by then, and work towards t drills, etc. better to not rush.

With a true pro who does it all perfect, 5 months is a reasonable time frame of work that will get you through swim by and into basic blinds with a good quality dog.

I appreciate the honest replies. I'm not in a rush if anything I've been slowing things down. I'm really trying to be systematic and make sure she absolutely nails each step of the process before I move on to the next. The reason I was asking is because by doing things this way I've been blown away by how fast she is moving along. I have a couple questions. When you say 5 months for a pro are you talking about starting a dog from scratch? We've got Obedience 100%, collar conditioning and hold done, had big breakthroughs on hold with obedience commands today and will probably start FF later next week if things keep going the way they are.
I guess my biggest reason for the post is what to do if we're not done by the opener. Would it be better to take her hunting and use that as a training opportunity or wait until she's "finished" .

"Crunching numbers", you've got roughly 38 days 'til November.
A "finished" dog is loosely defined by having the following and
let's put "hurry up days" to do them next to each. In addition,
I know I've spent more (or less) time on each of these with
various dogs. In addition, I rushed the list and probably left
something out.

CC not finished - 5
working on hold - 3
FF to do - 14 (that's very, very quick)
walking fetch 2
force to pile - 4
pile work - 5
3HC - 6
Single T - 8
Double T - 4
force to water - 3
swim-by - 7
lining drills - 7
decheating - 7
simple pattern blinds - 7
simple cold blinds - 8
marking setups - 19 (every other day)

Now if you train twice a day (can you do this?) and
everything falls into place (dog sails right along - not
likely) and divide the above 104 sessions by two it
would take a minimum of 52 straight days (no days
off and training twice a day) which means there is
no way to be ready by November because you
only have 38 days.

And of course, the weather factor has not even been
factored in.

Lower your unrealistic expectations. Relax and have
fun training the dog. Do what you can do and plan on
just having a fun, relaxed hunting season doing whatever
he is capable of doing (without a lot of pressure). Do
what the dog needs. Plan on a finished retriever next year.

Then do ur homework and spend ur time training and have ur dog ready for the next year. U can easily take her on small hunts say in a rice field or something where u can have better control of her and just let her pick up some birds but don't expect her to do things she doesn't know give it time it will make for a more enjoyable hunting partner


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I was just curious but how old is the dog in question, oops never mind I just saw I was too lazy to read whole thread

Thanks for all the replies, good info. Sounds like it would be pushing it to get where I'd like to be by November but if we keep working at it should have a finished dog with some good experience by seasons end at least.

Yep, I loose 30 days every so often.

And " Freshwaterkilla" is correct in probably adding a factor
of X3. The time frame I described was in a "hurry up mode" like
in rushing and if everything went perfectly with a quick
learning dog. My point was to try and reveal just how difficult
your expectations were.

There's an expression "The faster I go the farther behind I get"
that often applies to dog training.

My last pup was not rushed and was totally ready to hunt at
about 16 months....Senior level skills. No rush as my older dogs
took the pressure off pushing him too fast.

I will say I'm impressed with the fact that you are training
every day and sometimes two sessions.

I guess I was excited by a couple days in a row of big breakthroughs. Then just to burst my bubble she went full retard on me today. I guess that's just dog training though. Back at it tomorrow.