i hunt on a 150 acre lease that is just with me and my three buddies. We hunt 2 primary spots. One is a shallow 2 acre pond. The other is a larger 5 acre pond. In the smaller pond my dog has no issues hunting past the decoys. The larger pond he will not hunt past the decoys. I have no clue if it's the little bit rougher water where he's loosing his mark in the waves while he swims, If he's loosing his mark from the boat, if the larger body of water over whelms him ? He will look and look in the decoys and come back sit down and start yelping wanting to get the duck. It kills him ! He will work way past the decoys in the smaller pond and handles easily on the bank in the far side of the shallow pond. Thought maybe it was his swimming but training with him we do retrieves in the water from the boat further then the deep water pond. I was thinking maybe I can first do a few retrieved in deep water with no decoys. Then add some decoys but make them short retrieves and work back from there. He's a great dog high motor, will go all day. He's smart but we have both seem to have hit a lol bump in the road. I'm trying to approach this in a way I won't make it worse. I don't want him to make it a habit of swimming back when he can't find the bird. Any suggestions or ideas ?

Is he force fetched and forced to the pile? If not that's your main problem if he is forced then bring bumpers with you and work him past the decoys and he will get the point and when you work him on land work him at least twice the distance you want him to work in the water.

Yes he is force fetched. He has his started title. Didn't get to run seasoned test this year due to my work schedule and preg wife. I've Ben doing long retrieves on land with decoys on the ground this past week. Have not tried him in water since our last hunt. Another issue might be its Ben just me training him by myself . I usually only have time 6 am in the morning or later in the afternoon. Hard to find help during those hours lol. Zero issues anywhere except big ponds / deep waterfor some reason.

He might just need to get the hang of it. Thanks for the tip

Just a thought, is he a lean dog? My boykin has hardly any fat on him so when he is in rough water he cant see past the decoys.( swimming harder makes him swim deeper in the water) I got him a float jacket and now he can see everything.

I work him in the big pond give him a little more experience but you should be able to blow whistle and send him back through the decoys if he is trained properly once you are sure he understands you can knick him and send him back if he refuses to go through decoys not sure how he is trained so it's hard to say exactly what you should do but I would start buy bringing bumpers and throwing them past the decoys

Yes he is lean. Hard to keep weight on him. He paces a lot in his kennel and hates sitting still. He will go back if I send him back in the small pond but not the big pond. Or when he does he looks around then comes back again. I can cast him easy without decoys but not with them in deep water.

How old is your dog?? And how far are the decoys that you have out in the big pond? By what you are explaining, it sounds like he is not getting a mark or a good mark on the downed birds.. And when he gets there the bird drifted fro the mark that he had, and is getting confused.. Hence the swimming in circles, Maybe try some easy retrieves in the big water to build his confidence and go from there..

Dogs are situational learners. This happens with most dogs on their first hunting trips, even our field trial dogs that are used to going hundreds of yards on their marks. The easiest thing is to teach ahead of time by setting up a bunch of decoys, then teaching to dogs to swim past the decoys on marks. Alternatively just handle the dog to the first few marks or if they don't handle walk with them to the birds through the decoys. They usually pick up the concept pretty quickly. It's not a big deal.

Buck

K thanks, the decoys vary from hunt to hunt. He has no issues going through decoys in the smaller pond with no matter the number of decoys. He just passed 2. He's no pup but he's not an old man. This isn't his first year to hunt but I never had this issue till this year. Maybe it's as simple as training. It's been a while since we did training on the water.

Rcmannjr thanks will try that. Teamschmo thanks but sometimes the bird does not moves, but yes you could be right . I'll prolly take the dog out set up a simulated hunt on the bayou near the house once everything's set up go pick him up by water at my house and do a simulated hunt. Only variables I will remove is multiple hunters in the boat . My dog is usually way more amped up on real hunts then training scenerios

How hard can you hit him with the shock collar, if he understands what back means and is force fetched properly and is just checking up at the decoys, turn that collar and scream back over and over, every time you screen back, shock him, he understands and is just trying to fuk with you, if he still refuses, walk your ass out to where he has stopped, line him uo right there and give him a back command. They try and play mind games with you, your the trainer, you will always win. He will get tried of gettin popped with the collar and just wake up and go "oh shit I need to go back" and just take off

your moms house

I stopped reading, so I didn't get how old the dog was lol. I get impatient a lot of times with reading threads

your moms house

Lol that's ok. He definitely wants the bird. I think I'm gunna just work from the basics and go from there. Might be a combination of refreshing and just practice keeping his mark while swimming. Id walk him past the decoys but in my big pond no man is walking in that marsh lol. I have a spot near my house I can work him. I can walk that marsh. I appreciate the tips guys !

I would also try setting up decoys and then shooting a dummy launcher (marked so he can see the fall) way past them--start with lighter loads and keep increasing the distance. Do this over and over. This teaches several things and is a great drill

No my own my own house. Pintail I'm 30 I'm a man !!! Lol MNgunner thanks for the tip. I'll try that.

You could also get a buddy out past the decoys with a pile of birds, have him get the dog's attention to make sure he sees the bird thrown, if the dog checks up at the decoys, have your buddy start screaming and yelling and gettin the dogs attention and as soon as the dog looks up, throw another bird. Keep doing that drill until he will push past the birds or the obstacle with out having to throw the second bird

your moms house

My bad lol was not paying attention Lol. I was like what the hell does that have to do with any thing. Good idea will give that a try as well.

I have never not seen it work. It's a very good drill to do when trying to get your dog to push past the normal distance he is comfortable at, or in your instance, pass decoys. You just have to make sure the guy throwing birds for you is familiar with what a dog looks like when it starts breaking down, and knows when to hoot and holler and get the dog's attention and throw it at the right time

your moms house

I got the right person in mind to help me. thanks again I will update you on his progress. has done really good so far on his training never knew I had an issue till we hunted the big pond at the end of first split.

The dog won't go beyond the decoys because open water can be a natural barrier
(more so for some dogs). A dog should be exposed to this concept before simply
expecting him to do so. For example, in the follow photo, once an inexperienced
dog gets beyond the decoys, big water can be intimidating.

For a young dog, even a large pond that's never gone across may create problems.
Gradual transitions for distance in training make this an easier "do" during hunting.
Pressure is not usually the right approach. Any time going farther out into the water
becomes and issue it is usually because the dog has never been exposed to the
"out to sea" concept.



Late every summer my dogs will "review" that concept with this "out to sea" pattern
blind.



One summer, Kooly had to split a large "bunch" of geese for his "review".



Young dogs should be trained on challenging water blinds so that when hunting
nothing is a "big deal".

great thanks. was wondering if my dog is intimidated when he is in big open water. thanx for the pics. I think maybe my dog might not of done a lot of retrieves in deep water during his training. iv since took over and am seeing as we go along what was and was not done. they have all ben easy corrections, but im wanted to take the right approach so I don't have to retrain him or screw him up then go back and correct my training mistake. most of my dogs flaws are due to my training. but we are both getting better

You need to teach him how to hunt past the decoys. Situation drills in big ponds. Force to pile on a far bank. Reverse t drill that sort of stuff. Hes only two.he did the same thing last year on that hunt i made with you. Drilling it after a hunt will help. He needs to be taught to hunt past the dekes.

I'll give you some advice that every trainer I talked to when I started with my first dog, stick to one person, get one person to help you and one only, yes the basis of it is the same but every trainer does things different, so find one guy to help you, and stick with that, I asked like 8 diff trainers before I stuck with just one, once I did that it made a world of difference

your moms house

Yea but i worked on it this past summer and was having no issue working with him but I figured out its a big pond is the only time he won't go past the decoys. We had Ben training him in a smaller pond. No problem in our smaller pond. Thought problem was solved till we hunted the bigger pond. I'm gunna work on it.

Just my 2 cents: I would enlist the help of a bird boy someone who is willing to get out past the decoy spread on water be it from land or boat and throw your marks for you. Have them throw a mark, if the dog gets past the decoys and seems confused have your bird boy get the dogs attention and throw another mark in front of the dog for him to retrieve, remember the dog has to be successful on every retrieve. You have to teach the dog, that there will be times he will have to swim past the decoys to make a retrieve.

Da DogMan

Thanx !