Got a slight problem with my female lab. The "only" thing she is doing wrong is hesitating on first command to fetch. She does this on water and land, on any training fetch. I have to call her name twice for her to leave. She does not hesitate on the 2nd command. I have tried being louder, softer, closer, everything but force. I really don't want to force her. She is super attentive and marks well. When I call her name the first time, she jerks like "I want to go", but then relaxes. No problem on 2nd send command.

She honors without issue. During play time, she leaves on first command. I make sure I reward her greatly after every retrieve is finished unless it is on doubles and triples, then I reward her on last bird. She has never been hollered at. She is 2 1/2 and this just started this month.

Ya'll got any advice? I know she will fail if the judges see this happen more than once.

If she has been forced, then I would heel forward with a nick for every no-go. You are right, it will be a problem in HRC and on an AKC blind it is an immediate DQ.
There are 3 absolutes in retrieving. The dog has to go when sent, stop when told and return when called.
You have conditioned her to go on the second send by allowing it.

Buck

Rc Mann nailed it. Or you may have bumped her collar one time when you sent her causing her hesitation. This issue is also why alot of trainers use the BACK command instead of the dogs name because some dogs have confusion with what their name means when you use it for the send command. When you write it out, it makes more sense. So here we go. Tank sit. TANK. Tank here. As opposed to.... "tank sit, BACK,. Tank here. Good boy." When giving action commands it's better to use the dogs name just to get their attention so they acknowledge you're talking to them and it's not your buddy talking to his dog.

It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.

most of the test and trial dogs, at least with my experience anyway, are sent to go on a marked retrieve by thier name and a blind retrieve with the back command. when i had just a pretty good meat dog i would have totally agreed with you. but now that i have seen the difference, i would never go back to just a general "back" command for every retrieve. the dog learns that the different commands, dog's name vs. back, mean different types of retrieves.

On a blind retrieve I use my hand and give the dog a line, say MARK and then send him with BACK. When ge gets near the mark it's dead dead dead dead real fast. He goes apeshit and starts tracking. I've seen both ways. To me a dog knowing the mark command and being able to run lines is far better and a dog that knows a command similar to dead to let him k ow he's close so he quits his bullet run and uses his nose

It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.

I want to use her name for sending mainly due to hunting when other dogs are present. If I use "back", and the other dogs owner uses that command for his dog, my girl will also want to leave instead of honoring. Using her name eliminates that issue unless there is a dog of the same name or close sounding.

I will try not saying her name the 2nd time and instead step forward, "heel", nick, and then reset her. Maybe saying her name twice is like telling her it is ok not to leave on 1st command. I sure don't want her to have to go through "direct" pressure and have to nick or burn her to make her leave.

I really appreciate the input guys. Please keep advising.

BTW - she is in her 18th month of training, already has her HR title and this upcoming test is her first run for HRCH. I also intensified the training time for the last month in prep for this test. Normally I would train for 30 minutes in morning and then again in evening. Now it is an hour each. Wonder if the added training time is causing some depression? I give her free play time for about 30 minutes after each training session.

The traditional commands are usually:

Release on name for marks. In hunt tests some people cue with "mark" before calling for the birds. This is helpful hunting, if action has been slow and the dog is not paying attention, you can say "mark" and they will start looking out and watching.

Cue with "dead bird" followed by "back" on blinds. The hand over the dogs head is a steadying cue and not used to line the dogs up. Putting the hand over the head lets them know they are lined up correctly and are getting ready to be sent. Use push-pull to line the dog up.

That being said, I train with a guy that had the NAFC a few years ago and he sends on "back" for marks and blinds. So, as long as you are consistent the dog will learn your sequence of commands.

Buck

Yes Sir. Well taken advice. I also think I am going to lay off the extra training time, go back to about 30 minutes each day. I am going back to singles only to reinstate the fun of the reward.

She will leave on back but it also takes 2 commands. I won't command her twice as it may be conditioning her to wait until the 2nd command. If she continues to refuse to leave on the 1st command, I'll step forward, heel and nick her, then heel, then send. Hopefully she will get the idea. And I'll give her more play time just having fun and getting more rewards.

Anybody got anymore thoughts?

the fact that she leaves on the first command during "play time" but takes two commands during training is interesting. your solution would be the same one i would try. more play time, less serious training until things click again. good luck.

I don't know what nick means. But for your problem I would not use negative reinforcement

It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.

Just a little "nick" on the collar, not burning her. I don't want her to think anything is negative while on place and after marking or ready for a blind. I would only give indirect pressure "if she doesn't leave on 1st command" by stepping forward and commanding heel while nicking her with the collar as she is leaving the place. Just want her to know that it is uncomfortable to just sit there and when she gets off the place, and heel's, she will not get any uncomfortable pressure. At least this is some advice I have received. If this is wrong, let me know.

I'd try it without electricity first. Leave her leash on and give her a tug. Just let it drag while she's running

It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.

I personally use the e-collar as a last resort.

It's simple. get a mud motor. shoot ducks in the face.

Smash - that is exactly what I am going to do. Giving her a break all this next week and just going to have fun with her. I am beginning to think it is a confidence issue. She thinks way to much and I notice it on some of her water retrieves. On the "t" I see her pause and anticipate me stopping her to cast. When she does that, I just let her resume the line for the farthest bird/bumper. We do that over and over until she stops thinking.

I believe I am the cause of this hesitation by over working her. She is sensing something different cause the schedule changed and she might be confused. Lots of just fun for her this next week to relax her.

Does anyone differentiate between dead bird and cripple? I know a few people that use the dead bird before commands on blind retrieves but does anyone actually tell the dog whether the bird is dead or alive?

Really good advise above . Take it from my view , I've ran the games , even the Grand . FT's in the 60's to early 70's with my grandfather . With the above mention , I wouldn't even run this test , and take the lost . Depending on the judges , you could pass with the dog doing it at the test , so you'll just be compounding the problem . As said , lay off for a week or two with fun . Then work your way back into training , first with singles . Start from land , have the marked throw , send dog on name , if she doesn't go , either put it on the truck , or better yet , tell her no bird , walk out yourself and get it . Then rerun it , bet she's get's it . When moving to water , you will need a pick up dog . Once it's good , move to doubles , then triples . After this is all good , go to some mock test first . May take 3 months or longer , but worth it in the long run . Remember , only send her on her name one time , you help create this by saying it again , so you have to correct yourself too ! Good luck

The the other thing I would consider is to not rush your training to try and get ready for a test. As Dogyak said, make sure your dog is more than ready before you start testing. Your dog should be underwhelmed when you run her in a hunt test. If not, then she isn't ready.
When I used to run hunt tests, we wouldn't run a Junior or Started test until our dogs were doing solid Master/Finished level work. If you use that game plan, the tests will be fun, your pass rate will be high and few bad things will happen that you have to fix.

Buck

[/quote]
I don't understand how "nicking" would make them go. Most dogs response to a shock when they are near you is to sit.[/quote]

That is why I qualified my answer with the statement that the training needed to be part of a traditional training program. A properly collar conditioned dog won't freeze, that's the point of the process. One of the early steps is force to the pile. After this there is a compulsion for the dog to go hard when sent. Indirect pressure works extremely well in a no go situation for a dog that has been trained as part of a sequential retrieving program. If not, then it won't work because the tools haven't been put in the dog to use.

Decided to pull her from testing. Just going to continue training and get another hunt season under her. Maybe she will be ready for the next test in the spring. BTW - I think only 25% of the dogs that ran the finished tests passed. It was a tough course.

Sounds like a good decision.

Buck