i got lost in alot of this post. db8's was way too involved for me to understand but i did get most of it.

now my 2 cents

the oil will soak alot of heat, reguardless how small or large the passages are. it is still in contact with all the inturnal surfaces of the aluminum. the transfer of heat from the motor to the oil is much greater than the air flowing over the outside. the cooler the oil the cooler the motor. plus the larger the cooler the morre oil and the better the heat reduction. the oil is a large part of the cooling system on the air cooled motor. these motors would only need a small amount of oil for lubracation. the extra, even though is not a lot, helps with cooling. the whole motor is in its self part of the cooling system. its all alumnium and transfers heat. yes the heads and cyls will get hotter than the block but thats where most of the oil is most of the time. if you ran the motor hard for a long time the block would get just as hot if there were no oil there to pull the heat.

more cooler oil= cooler engine

as for blocking the air flow with the cooler. the cooler will alow the air to flow though. it may look as though its blocked but air is still flowing. ide say the removal of the screen would double the flow to start with. the only disadvantage might be hotter air flowing from the cooler. but i dont see where it would big a problem.

db8, i dont want to dis credit what you said. you do seem to know your $hit. but these are not the most engineered engines. if they were you would not have to mod them. and when you do they become very un perdictable. strong for there size and reliable when stock but far from over built. they are a ballance between light weight and hp.

as for being oil cooled no the are not advertised as being so. but it plays a bigger part than you are giving it.

the auto engine does use the oil as part of the cooling system. how often have you ever seen a water cooled turbo. the oil is the only way to cool it. that a hot job.

I got a IR temp meter. Took temps before start up and after about 10 mintues on the top cooler at idle. Temp dropped when it started pulling air and I expected a little rise after it warmed up. But it didn't happen. So its not causing the pulled air to be hotter. I'll do some better testing on friday with the cooler on and off. Will pick some points on the block and heads and see what happens.

To summarize the post above- when HH says "The engine block is cooled by the Oil, not the air moving around it" and H4D says "the transfer of heat from the motor to the oil is much greater than the air flowing over the outside" these are not accurate statements. I don't think I can add any more to this thread.

i think we can all agree that keeping your oil as cool as possible is important. my concern to pokers soulution is that he is indeed blocking the air flow into the blower housing. and that is what concerns me. any blockage of air no matter how small is going to have a effect on the cooling of the engine block. and from what i see it is a fair amount of blockage. at idle and lower rpms. after all this is were the heet cycle begins. correct ? on your mowing tractor at home i would'nt think that you would let any build up of debris build up on said screen no matter how small ? and if you think that the cooler is not cutting down air flow you need to think again. i find it hard to belive that some have said that they are getting a 20 - 30 degree drop in oil temps. now i know i'am going to be called out on that one and here is my response don't take your reading at the cooler take it at the oil sump. does that make sense ? after all that is were the oil is stored. i commend poker for thinkin outside the box. he and others are tryin to make a more reliable running. longer lasting engine. i think the trade off is not a good idea. again my opinion. but i do have a little exp. with these engines. if oil temps are a concern of some. you might think of this soulution.we have double stacked oil coolers in the stock location and have taking a hole saw to the blower housing to let the air flow out and around the coolers. this will be cooled air it hasn't made to the cylinders yet. and has little to no volume loss to said cylinders. you can use one stock cooler or two stacked or a whole new vented cooler. that way you are not restricting the flow thru the blower housing not effecting any of the flow to the cylinders because of the design of the ducts in the cover and you are cooling your oil at the same time and you are not running the risk of your top mounted cooler beening damaged. i hope this helps some of you.also you need to hook up your stacked multiple coolers in series not parillall

ok, i have a question. which do yall think restricts air flow more-the debris screen bolted to the flywheel, or the STOCK oil cooler mounted in front of the fan? serious question.

So what your saying is you get more air to the jugs when you divert air elsewhere rather than restrict it?

I'll call bullchit.

Now, if you would've made an argument about running the warmer air from the front over the jugs you may have had a valid argument. That has always been a questionable subject.

Here is a picture of a cooler similar to what some are using. As you can see, air can freely flow right through the cooler. Only restricted by the small surface area of the actual tubes the oil flow through. The benefit of having a lil more oil flow through the engine and also being able to keep it out of the block for a moment longer seems to out weigh the very small amount of air you are blocking off.

first to you auto i would say the debris screen. all of the above posters and myself removed them. now to the others. i always thought that when you stacked oil coolers do you know what a stacked oil cooler means ? the whole idea was to run the oil thru twice. i should have taken the time to draw a picture. and that is a very nice picture of a obstucted view of a cooler hose. and if you would actually look at a fan in the direction it runs and look at the ducting and what i said about volume loss verses obstruting the intake of flow you might understand. the air is already inside the blower housing not being cut off by a cooler. and in a way early post if you would have looked i did address the concern of flowing hot air into the blower housing. across the engine. its your engine do as you please.

I believe that if you pulled the debris screen, and then installed the oil cooler over the fan guard that the restriction of air flow would be no greater than with the debris screen installed. Opinion.

So the fan puts out more air than it brings in. How is that so?

wonder if that might effect your warranty ?. you might want to ask dead bird to find that out for you on the other site. or call mica at m.b.

i think we both know how a fan works.

Exactly, that's why I'm still waiting for a valid answer to my question from you. You say a cooler one the front restricts flow which may be plausible meaning less flow to jugs. But, on the other hand, you say you can cut a hole for OEM coolers and not lose flow to the jugs.

Please explain.

Honestly, I don't know how the round Dyson fan the Brit guy advertises on TV.

Please explain that one, too.

hey kibb you don't even know me but a early time in my life i was taught and learned not to lie. a lie always leads to another to cover up the first one. if you would have read my earlier post on volume loss on the the blower housing i did state there would be a loss of volume. but i will trade off a 1-1/4 hole any day verses the total square inch loss of a 4 or 5 pass cooler with fins. pumping in any where from up to 240 degree air. on our stock vented cooler from the blower housing we build a plenum to direct the air over as much of the cooler as possible it does require moving the stock cooler out 1 inch further than stock location. that way we get the most air to the cooler and not being defected by the air movement while going down the track or the lake. i have also looked at the picture of pokers mounting of his cooler and it looks to me that he is flush mounting tight against his blower cage. by doing this you will lose up to 40 percent efficiency. if i was to use this method of cooling i would space my cooler out at least 2 to 3 inches away from the cage. by doing that you will get 100 percent efficiency of the the cooling per square inch. and reduce air temps injected into the blower housing. we did three tests last friday had a day off from the pulling curcuit.we were out testing some weight transfer ideas. we tested in stock trim. and vented thru the blower housing and cooler over blower housing. these our my findings for what ever worth they are to you. i couldn't duplicate all three tests at the same temps. but by testing i observed these tendencies relating to cooling. in stock trim after three pulls and a ten min. idle test cylinder temps and cooler temps lowered and then leveled out sump temps also lowered and leveled out. block temps also dropped. air temps.thru the blower housing were at outside ambient temps. this cooling cycle was a very slow process. test two was thru the now un taped off blower vent. all the temps were elevated do to two more pulls. during the test there was a drop of air flow to the following cylinder more than the lead cylinder. same ambient air temps thru the housing as out side temps. but during the ten min. test all temps seen a drop for the whole ten minute test. test three was done with a oil cooler off our mini rod. it is a larger cooler than what poker used but i could.nt find a cooler like his i did order one and will do a test with it during the iowa state fair this coming month. now this is a oil cooler and not a transmision cooler there is a difference. the one poker used is a transmission cooler. ambient air temps thru the blower were elevated over 100 degrees his mounting way. but we seen a nice drop in blower temps by spacing out the cooler away from cage. if you all decide to go this way in mounting your coolers this way. i would diffently spacer it out. but i tested flush mount. air flow also was slowed down even more than in test two. all temps slowly decressed like test one and than leveled out with very little additional cooling thru the ten minute test. so this is what i found out. test three had the slowest recovery rate than the others do to what i think is a flow restriction and the adding of hot ambient air thru the blower housing. but it did have a lower oil sump temp than the stock test due to the adding of the cooler. so i hope this might help some that use their boats in higher summer temps like the bow fishing guy or the guys that use their boats to make a living. i joined this site to maybe learn some valuable info and maybe also share some info also. hell kibb if you think i'am a liar and want me to go away i will. i'am not butt hurt by any means. as far as the dyson fan all i can say it must be magic.

Never called you a liar, just looking for facts. That's all.

why not jus put a larger oil cooler in the stock coolers place