Hi Guys - I'm new to this thread and thought I'd get some input from those who have the knowledge. I have a Alumacraft 1650 Waterfowler Jon boat. It is an all welded Mod-V Jon that weighs in fairly heavy at 550 ish pounds. I understand it is not intended to propelled by a longtail or short tail mud motor. As for my question....

Is there any type of mud motor that I could equip this rig with that would be decent performance? I see a lot of guys running 1648 grizzly trackers with short tails and some claim to get great speeds. I think the hulls are fairly similar.

As for how I hunt and where I hunt. I hunt primarily rivers and marshes. Rarely would ever get on big waters. Areas have silt, sand, clay, mud bottoms. Rarely would ever encounter rocks or logs but occasionally. I'm looking at putting a fixed aluminum blind on my boat. It will be real low profile, and it will weigh in around 150 lbs give or take a bit.

If I were to go with a short tail mud motor, what would it take to get the job done? And if it's just not possible, would you mind explaining why not? Thanks gents.

Here are a couple pics of the boat





And a link to see specs on the boat.

http://www.alumacraft.com/index.php?id=709#info

Let me ask you a question, would you run a 25 outboard on this setup if shallow water wasnt an issue?

Haha I feel like I'm being Teed Up here, not sure if that is a loaded question or not (JK)...

To answer your question, no I would not unless it was a new motor, which I still don't think would have the power to move it.

They sell these boats with 25 HP Mercurys in many places in the country (not saying that is smart, but they do it). I put a 1988 35 HP Evinrude on the boat, and it moved it alright. With a load it was so so. So I put an early 1980's 50 HP Johnson on it, and now it runs pretty good. Does almost 40 with a light load and mid to upper 30's with a heavy load.

I understand speed is not going to be a word that is associated with this setup if I went with a short tail.

Can someone explain to me how the structure/design of the bottom of this boat is that much different than a mud hull to make that much of a difference. It does have keelsons, the bottom is not perfectly flat, I'm not sure what the degree or rake of the boat is. Does the rake of have to do with the slight V in the bottom of the boat?

I'm not an expert and nor do I pretend to be one. I'd be open to trading up the boat for a true mud hull, but figured I'd at least entertain the idea of using this boat.

What if I welded a float bar or a set of float pods on the boat? I have a buddy who has a TIG welder that could definitely help me out there. It was just an additional last minute thought...

If a 25 outboard won't push it well, a 35 hp mud motor won't do worth a shit on it. I think that's what woodie was getting at.

Hell yeah duals would look bad ass on this boat might be a lil bit heavy, but still bad ass.

put a mb 4500 on er and she would truck along pretty good. my boats 700lbs and does good

The best advise I could give you is to get a 18x54 built for a Mudmotor and put a Stage 1 35 of your choice on it.

I have a 1754 Grizzly Tracker with beaver tail flotation pods on mine. I run basically the same types of areas you run. I have a 35hp Mud Buddy SD and I'm completely happy with the way the boat handles and speeds. I'm running around 26 with 2 guys.

I have the same boat with a 25 efi 4 stroke. It pushes it good with just me n the dog. Two people and the the dog is ok. No speed records broken. Three people it just plows. I was gonna put my 27pd on it but now Im glad i didn't and just bought another actual mud hull. If u put a 35 with a few mods it should push it ok depending on the load. My cuzin has a 1548 war eagle with a 35 GTR and a custom aluminum blind and it won't plane out with just him. Doesn't have enough planning surface. Even with trim tabs. But urs is a little longer so it'll have a better planning surface. But u probably better have some horses to push it. Just my opinion.

I also think a mud motor would work better if the hull was flat in the back and no v what so ever. The Waterfowler 16 has to much v and displaces to much water to the sides.

I've got a 1754 Xpress.

Had a 60hp Merc and side console. Blew the motor. Yanked the console and motor, and hung a 36 PD on it. Not near as fast as the 60 horse, but I can get it wherever I want to... 26-27 empty, 22-24 loaded 2 guys and gear, and 19-21 loaded 3 guys and gear(I can get up to 23-24 in mud/shallows). Only mods are K&N filter, and gutted muffler.

Next dumb question...

Would flotation pods or a float bar do anything to help the boat?

Nope

Alright - R.I.P. to the 1650 Waterfolwer.

Can you guys talk to me about the pro's and con's of the 1756 Phowler Basic Series, and the the 1754 Pro-Drive X Series. Both of these boats will need big short tails with mods to motor I am sure.

Would either of these boats be able to handle a fixed aluminum blind frame? My hunting partner custom builds these blinds. I'd probably go with a remote steer ran to the front of the boat so it'd be easy to operate running the rivers in the dark.

Here is a picture of one of his blinds he recently built on an 1860. This particular blind he recently built is not low profile or no was it built as a light weight model. It weighs in at about 230 lbs brushed. We are looking a building a lighter and lower profile version, somewhere in the neighborhood of 125-150 lbs. This particular rig will do low 30's with 4 guys, 100 goose blocks, and 3-5 dz mallards, dog, and gear. I am not looking for these speeds, just wanting to be able to plane out. This rig he built is real nice. But it's hard to ever open the boat up on the river because you never know what is below you. The hull being riveted, and the motor being an outboard, you feel quite vulnerable running big rivers.

The new rig would probably be a 2 man rig and dog, with the option of hunting a 3rd guy every once and a while. Typical amount of gear would apply, with a fluctuation of decoy numbers from a few dz to maybe 100.

Am I dreaming here, or is there a hull and motor out there waiting for me...

I think what you want is doable with a stage one motor.

And, go 18'!!!!

I know each manufacture is probably different. But on a 35 or 36 HP short tail, what HP does a stage 1, stage 2, and stage 3 motor calculate out to be? I've heard to stay with bolt on mods to keep reliability. How much reliability do you lose when you start tricking these motors out? Thanks

Do heads, cam, and exhaust. Fix three things that briggs fucked up from the get go.

How would a 36 HP Pro-Drive with mods done to the motor do on that riveted 1860 Jon boat pictured above? Since it has a relatively flat bottom, and the hull is pretty light weight, would it move that boat alright? Say 3 guys, dog, and normal amount of boat gear?

I would think it would at least step that load with those mods depending on what your definition of "normal" is. If you can get it up on step, it should probably run low 20's. Never really know until you try. The mod v will hurt your load carrying, but the length of the boat will help negate that...

How about dual ProDrives on an 18-20 foot pig. That would push no problem!