I'll give you the cliff notes version of what transpired yesterday. I've sent the long form to Coe as he prepares for the SETX ride in Feb.

Basically, myself and two other forum members were out for a ride yesterday and ended up in moon pond. The weather was kinda crappy. Chilly, windy etc. 2' of water in moon pond lol. Not any mud in sight. We went to the far back NE corner of the pond to get out of the wind a little and were approached by a guy (more yelled at through the brush) telling us that we were trespassing and on his property and needed to leave immediately to avoid law enforcement involvement. He complained of having issues with cattle being shot etc. I apologized for the trouble he was having and informed him that we weren't touching the bank or disturbing anything. Just simply sitting in one spot having a conversation. He continued that he owned the whole pond including the water and the whole shoreline of those flats and the adjacent marsh and even if we anchored in the middle, we'd be trespassing. Nothing is posted anywhere up there that I saw.

We did exchange words and ended up leaving before it escalated. I failed to get the guy's name or info but should have. He threatened several times to call the sheriff or game warden. We all knew he was in the wrong and had no grounds to even be talking to us. But we left anyway. I do believe next time I'm down there and this takes place I'm going to drop a spud and open a cold Coca-Cola and get comfy and wait on authorities.

Just wanted to let you guys who frequent the area more than I do know to be watching for this guy. He's driving a maroon one ton dodge truck. He's probably in his 60's. He was wearing a black cowboy hat.

He's got a bad day coming in Feb

Sounds like a pleasant gentlemen.... Be careful, them old cattle ranchers can get crazy when they believe their livestock are being jacked with. I ran into that several years ago.

On another note, friend of mine smoked the redfish at those two culverts there at the levee road ac couple of weeks ago.

I know how it is to have your livestock jacked with. That's a hell of a bunch of money and time invested in those animals. I get it. But, we were obviously not there to do any harm. I get being upset about it but there has to be some sort of discretion in his part. Trying to tell us that he owned the pond, the water, the whole thing was a little rediculous. People know better than that crap. Not to mention he probably doesn't even own it. He mostly likely leases that area to run cattle.

I just didn't have the heart to tell him that there will be 100+ boats in that little pond come Feb lol

Lol that guy was an ass. Did we look like we were about to shoot some cattle ! Dude was just a dick ! He threatened to call the law on us of we put an anchor in the ground. Legally he can't do shit long as we dont step foot out of the boat. Can't own water just the land under it if it's tidal.

Lucky he didn't act too much a fool . Bens a combat marine. . Can of ass whooping he wouldn't have wanted to mess with.

H Finn

Probably old man Eddie Hollis. Yea hes had issues with people running dogs on his land at night and shooting cows thinking they are deer at night. probably bunch of idiot kids so hes got all defensive over his land. just tell him you wont set foot on the bank and just want to ride in the boat and hes cool. but I know his so its a little different.

We told him we'd move farther away from the bank and that was not good enough. He told us more than once if we so much as dropped an anchor in the middle of that pond he was calling the law. So either 'ol man Hollis' was having a worse day than average or it was someone else

We killed the engines as we got to the end of the pond and the wind ended up blowing us up against the grass. We were still a few yards from solid bank. No where near being on anybody's property.

lol combat vet and former college wrestler VS old man ha ha ha !!!

Seen him before as I was fishing the culverts as b. Was talking about .. .. He didn't confront me but Texas is a navagable waterway state .. As long as you don't touch or hit the land you can be wherever you want .. Yea there is a duck lease to the west of moon pond (towards River) but no signs or nothing marking so a lot don't know - but I wouldn't be going trying to mess someone's hunt up ..

In all said .. Hope he isn't checking cattle come Feburary cause I guess authorities would be called by him ( and they probably just gonna say , well sir are they physically on your property, "no they in the water" .. Sorry)


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Yep the guy knew we were not on his property. He said if he throw an anchor down in the water he is calling the law. Can't own the water buddy

And can't own the mud under the water .. Even if they gave him like a 30 foot embankment rule ... Y'all still didn't nothing wrong ..

Should probably give him Deans number and tell them both to get bent


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Coe we tried being civilized with the guy. He was being a complete ass. Maybe Brandon can talk to the dude.

yea ill talk to him this weekend.

I am hopeful for north winds and low tide come February. We won't need a fukn anchor or spud pole. Lol


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Anyone make contact with anybody?

I can almost guarantee you it's not his land. He was trying to say all of moon pond was his land lol

I thought navigateable water laws were based on avg water depth?

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I know you can own water . My bayou originally was only 4 feet wide. They widened the bayou 15' . I own all except 4 ' ( I own 30' on the other side of the bayou from my property ). I have to allow access through the water way. But by law I can tell people to move along if they decide to stop. Not that I would , I could care less.

I'd just like to make contact with the actual land owner and smooth it over with him before Feb. and yes, I believe the navigable waterway laws do depend on average depth. If they were explained to me correctly by a game warden down on the coast. I just want to be able to go down there and ride or fish or whatever and not be harassed by someone who's having a bad day.

Jay, you're in Louisiana.... We're not

Different states have different laws, I know here in Arkansas it does go by average water level, so flooded water in Timber OVER private land I can get to from our local water is still illegal. Lousiana has completely different laws due to the amount of water and such in the lower half of the state.

Sorry did not realize each states laws varied that much. Louisiana's property laws are ridiculous and complicated.

I know very little about Texas tidal water boundaries but here's a diagram for what each states practices in general. This is by no means the complete answer to every issue. Many different scenarios can be in place which effect who owns the water bottoms. I wouldn't trust a game warden either, very few people truly understand water boundaries.
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1451360984.260977.jpg

^ lil more to it in Louisiana. Texas seems a lil more cut and dry like it should be .

Some good bedside reading on this matter would be (Maloney and Ausness 1974) for those of you interested.

From Texas Law Book - depends on the land survey lines


The question of navigability of a stream is ultimately to be decided by the courts. See State v. Bradford, 121 Tex. 515, 50 S.W.2d 1065, 1070 (1932).


That all streams of the average width of 30 feet shall be considered navigable streams within the meaning of this act, so far up as they retain that average width, and that they shall not be crossed by the lines of a survey.
1 Sayles’ Early Laws of Texas, p. 271, quoted at 286 S.W. 466.

The old addage about "if you can float it you can boat it" works great where you
can see the Bay but it gets more complex as you progress inland into different
legal regulations.

A quick search on the appraisal district website says Mr. Hollis and possibly his brother own quite a few acres in Bessie Heights marsh...

Well damn ! The dude still didn't need to be an ass. We were not touching the land or disturbing anything. We were actually just taking a short break hiding from the wind. Hopefully won't be an issue come the mud run. He asked us to leave so we eventually did.

Yea I'm sure he gets plenty of visitors back there. He may have just been having a bad day. Not sure why he would give a crap if you were just riding in boats anyhow.

No clue . we honestly tried being cordial with the guy. We actually didn't even ride in moon pond long at all.

I tried to talk with the dude and be completely civil. He wanted no part of it and went straight to the "ill call the law" BS, I tried to enlighten him on what we were doing and that we weren't the ones causing the harm he shared he was having. He must have been particularly fired up that day because he threatened several times to have authorities there no matter where we were in that water basically. We left before it got too heated. I probably could have pushed the issue, and probably will next time I am confronted. I understand fully him wanting to take care of his herd and see to it that his land and property wasn't being disturbed or damaged but give me a break. I understand as a land owner myself that there are people that will tear shit up just for the sake of doing it. But he should have been able to look at us from the levee road and tell we weren't there to cause any sort of harm. - it still gripes my ass when I really sit and think about how the guy acted.

Yes but but in some cases in Louisiana you can own water not matter the tide high or low. Makes no since to me if you buy 3 acres ! When ride goes out you own 12 lol.

Hey FYI this navigable water act only applies to south of I 10 learned that the hard way also which was mentioned the land underneath is supposed to be the land owners thus you can't get out of your boat.. I pray that the GW don't get all of our fun taken away. Just be careful and run like hell especially north of I 10 it's "big thicket" #mostoutlawhuntedarea

Then I guess it's a good thing that Port Neches is south of I-10..............

It wasn't Mr. Hollis or his brother that did that to yall. I spoke with him and he said they haven't talked to anyone and he would check with his brother. they only really deer hunt and run cattle on the land. I told him in feb there would be a lot of boats out there running that area kinda like a fun run and he was ok with it as long as we didn't trespass on the grounds.