Thanks for those of you who have already posted, I figured I'd make a new thread with a title describing that I'm having problems to get more exposure.

Brand spankin new GTR23 on a 16' modified V hull. It has a 15" transom and I have the 15" transom model. I'm not sure about the transom angle, but I adjusted the motor to the bottom hole. it seems to work better than the top hole though I'm still getting jack shit in deep water. Out of water at WOT i'm getting 3950. I'm turning 2950 at 14 mph in deep water with the prop seemingly in the right spot at WOT. The rear seems to be running in a hole and the bow seems high. I've tried deep trim and shallow with the same results. In the shallows and mud it was hitting 19 today, back in deep water it ran 14 again. My 23 GDLT could push this same boat/load 19 easily in deep or shallow water with no problem. I opted not to get a 35 both for expense and weight issues. I assumed based on the performance of the 23 GDLT that the 23 gator tail would push the same or better, and I was reassured of this by the staff at Gator Tail. So far this is not the case. My brother and I shifted around and played with loading (one person all the way forward ect) and could not get better results. It seems that some have had similar issues on mod-v hulls and have solved these issues with trim tabs as this pushes the rear up and levels the boat out providing an even push.

Does anyone have any suggestions? I'm gonna call Gator Tail tuesday to discuss options and figure out what is going on. I'm hoping I dont have to put any more money into this as modification/trim tabs will be more than I can afford, i've already put a lot into purchasing this boat/motor ect.

Not to be a smartass but the GT hulls are built the way they are because of the research GT put into their products to get the most from their motors and boats. You put it on a hull that obviously is not a great match. Id think you could get better than 14 mph also but then again I dont know anyone running that combo.

I definitely understand that but I was reassured by both Hoyt and Kyle that it would be fine and should run fine as well as several others. I wouldn't have bought it unless I was reassured that it would work at least moderately well. I'm wondering if tabs would make any difference in deep water, shallow water and mud performance is pretty good but I need more in the deep.

How is it running? Is the azz end dragging or is it level?

With your increased speeds in the shallows, low rpm/high bow in the deep water, Id say its definately a bow angle/trim tab issue. When your in the shallows the boat is forced to level and less of the hull is below the prop. A SD naturally runs better when the boat and prop are parallel to the water (levelled load or shallow water). So see what you can do to bring that bow down.

If you have a 15 inch transom try to put the motor up 1-2 inches. These motor are made for a 16 transom but being 17 wont hurt them 15 could!!Is the belt housing hitting the water once on step if so the motor has to come up.. If you measured your motor with the angle in the measurement then it is lower than 15 try a square measure ment and see what you come up with..If its reading 15 with the transom angle in that measurement then a square measurement will be less!!

It looks to be 16" with the angle so i guess its less than that straight down. I tested the motor on the lowest hole setting but haven't tried it on the highest hole yet. I dunno if I'm failing to match motor tilt to my boat's transom angle or what but it seemed to run better today on the low hole. I'm about a step away from getting some trim tabs to level the boat out in deep water. Right now in deep water the throttle response is terrible too. It takes forever to get going in the deeper water but not so much in shallower water. Can trim tabs really make that much difference at 14 mph? Can they really help me step up better at these low speeds or are they only gonna help boats that get going more like 25-30-and up mph?

Do I need to go ahead and start shelling out money and get this thing modded up for more power? Am I just so underpowered that I need to give it in and just get an outboard with more hp? I really wanted a mud motor for the winter during duck season and getting in/out of the mud today was really nice and easy and w/ an outboard it sucks to have to worry about that!

here's a photo of the manufacturer in the same boat with a mudbuddy 27 w/ carb. He said he was getting 27-28 on that setup!! (no trim tabs)

I 2nd the opinion on trying to raise your motor2 inches. put a 2 by 2 stick of wood under it on top of the transom, and see how it does. I dont own a mud motor but I did it to my 25 yamaha on a 14 ft jon, and it runs about 32mph compared to running 26mph.

if u bought a motor without going get a free demo with the motor in question on your boat and setup right, then u deserve what u got. sorry.

Post some pics - of your rig on the trailer....

Put the motor where it seems to run best for the pics....

Hold the camera about even with bottom of hull and
get several angles - side profile, rear profile, etc....

Thats the only way your gonna get good help....

As far as a demo, there isnt a dealer within 500 mi of here so I went on the information I was given by professionals who work with these things every day.

As far as the motor...

Put it on the top notch today, seemed to do the trick. We got 17 mph in open water with the load fairly balanced at 2960-3030 RPM. This seems to be right with the load/size motor/size boat we are running and this is a perfectly acceptable speed for open water running. We developed another problem though. At times, we would put the motor WOT and it would start to backfire and wouldnt go above 1200 RPM and bog up. This is very similar to what my longtail started to run like after it got hit. I'm running 93 octane gas and I'm 99% certain that all of my fuel line fittings are tight as a 12 yo. I've been told that this is typically due to a timing issue and I'm guessing its gonna need warranty work on the timing key. The motor runs strong out of water, and I figure that once this timing issue is solved, the motor will see a slight power increase as well. As far as tabs go, I will probably still get tabs to push the rear up better and level the load a little more and try to squeeze more out of the motor. Also, a mikuni carb and exhaust will probably net me a little extra HP to get this boat into the low 20's. With tabs and carb, I should be getting enough speed to be satisfied for a while.

Thanks to all who posted and I appreciate all the help, I'll post the pics Gigafowl requested to see if there's anything else I can do to squeeze a lil more out of this thing!

Transom angle may be to straight up and down. YOu may want to put a 1/2" wodge under the mounting bracket on the backside of the transom to make the whole drive unit lean back more. Then try your different pin settings.

Or just cutt you loses and call hoyt and kyle up and tell them everything that you are telling us and let them diagnose the problem, its there motor som i'm sure they can fix it as their customer service second to none. Let them put the judge on your rig, and if its the motor and its brand new then its their problem which i'm most certain they'll do anything to resolve this problem. they have a fine product and if they are putting out motors that are giving you these problems then they need to knw about it first hand.


Hope this helps!

Turbo OUT

Interesting thread...

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=7637&p=79810&hilit=motor+wedge#p79810

adjust angle - see pic...

here's some pics of the rear area, this is where it seemed to run the best. I'm gonna call GT tomorrow and ask for advice. I'm wondering about this wedge idea, it seems like its the reverse of what helped though .... if the motor ran the best with the least inward tilt than wouldn't the wedge inward tilt the motor just like putting it in the bottom notch?

From the looks of that transom it looks like it has a hell of an angle, that could be your problem if it runs good on the top notch, means tht you are able to trim it out where it needs to be on the top hole, which in turns tells me that the transom has too much angle in it for that motor
application!

My thoughts on this!

To fix the problem fab some wedges to slide in the bottom of the motor mount to push it out a little more to get the angle you need and then you can use the other notches and get the RPM's and speed that you need without having to change your setup.

Your probably going to have to play with it a little and try different wedge thicknesses to get it right where you want it but that I'm almost positive will fix your problem.

Put the wedges underneath the motor mount that sits against the transom where you adjust the motor height!

thanks gator! I was starting to look at some of the "general operation" pictures on the GT website and I began to come to the same conclusion. it wasn't that my transom didn't have enough angle, it was that it had TOO MUCH angle! I'll definitely be playing with wedges. If you're thinking how I'm thinking, then you're suggesting keeping the thick part of the wedge at the bottom of the mount and trying to straighten out the motor to give it better forward push? I still feel like adding tabs would really help a lot of the problem by forcing the bow down and giving a similar effect to wedging the motor, but I would be able to control the push angle with more precision. Although I'm worried if I spring for em, if I'd have to be mindful of tilting them up in the mud to not break em? I'll try wedging first and see where it goes.

Yeah we are on the same page, Put the thick in down and when you get the ones you are comfortable with, of course you'll have to take the bolts out that you use to stabilize the motor. Slide the wedges in and then drill through the wedge and put the bolt back through there and it'll hold it all together and your problem should be solved. If this works it might lesson the chance of you needing trim tabs.

Try it and let me know, i'm anxious!

If it is too much angle then just push down on the handle while running and see if it picks up speed. By lowering the engine back with a wedge then adjusting the pin on your trim up you would then be running the drive flat rather than angled down. the more the drive runs flat the faster you go.

Called up GT today after the holiday weekend. Pretty much been on and off the phone with Hoyt all day long. First, figured out the backfiring under load problem .... fouled plugs! got em changed and off we go. Next, we started having tilt issues, relay had gotten full of water from recent rain and shorted it, changed it out and trim works great. Played with loading and got 17 in the deep which is fine for now. Hoyt said trim tabs would make the ass end get up and go and he said NOT to put a wedge in the motor bracket but he suggested instead of using trim tabs to pick the ass end up, to use some wedges that attach to the underside of the hull that will lift the back on plane. I asked him if trim tabs are better b/c of the ability to control the plane angle and he said it'd be fine so that way I can dial it in for maximum speed. So I'll probably end up doing that.

Thanks for all the help and I'll post some vids soon of our recent mudding experience, it was quite interesting to run over a straight mud flat for my first time. I used to be able to run some mud with the GDLT but not like this motor can!

As far as mods he said that cams/heads/exhaust would give me more power than i know what to do with! so that'll probably be coming up next.

you should take the money that you want to get in mods, sell the boat its on, add the two amounts together and get a GT boat and then you wont have any problems altogether. the motor on the right boat dont require mods. thats what i would do, and prob lot of other guys on here also.

Are you sentimentally atached to the hull? If not the Mod-V will never perform to its fullest. I have seen first hand some 23 GTR's doin some good speeds on a 1846 GTB. get a flat bottom hull and you will thank me later!

Honestly, I used to run flat-bottoms and I just dont like em, i wanted a boat that would pole, track, and cut chop better than any flat bottom.

Updates:

My little knowledge of small engines is being tested to its limits. After putting in the new set of plugs and having the motor run pretty good. I took her home, went out this morning, and SAME OLD SHIT! Popping, stuttering, choking, couldnt get past 2000 RPM at WOT ect. Opened the plugs, fouled to shit. Put new plugs in again and adjusted the governor. Ran 18-19 with just me at 3100 RPM great! SO WTF ARE MY PLUGS GETTING FOULED?? I have a feeling I'm having some factory issues with the carb thats causing the mixture to be too rich, which is also why I can't get 3600 in water. I tried running it today with no filter on and I picked up about 50 extra RPM's so it doesnt conclude carb issues but it still could be. The kicker is, this same crap happened when I ran this boat with the 23 GDLT for a few days, I never did check the plugs on that motor but I'd be willing to bet they are fouled up too. I fear that the load of the boat/ect is too much for the motor and causing the richness issue, but Hoyt says he's got a 23 stock pushing 5 guys at 20 MPH, So obviously this little motor can do work.

The bottom line is, do y'all think that if I get a shop (dont wanna void the warranty) to check the carb and make sure its not a lemon and adjust the air/fuel ratio, check the valve settings/lashes, and check the timing key that I can get a set of plugs to last more than 30 minutes, and get the RPM's to where they need to be, thereby getting closer to the performance that is advertised with this motor? Or do you think this is a lost cause and I just need to get rid of this thing and get an outboard and call it a day?

You sure it's not a fuel related issue being you had the same exact problem with a different motor?

Different tank, different gas, different station, different line! I made sure of that b/c I thought that might be the case...I'm at my wits end. I'm starting to think that a trip to Loreauville is in order to get all of this fixed up and straightened out, but the soonest I can go is the 12th

Where are u located?

jacksonville, Fl. Its gonna be an 11 hour drive to get there so I need a day driving 1-2 days to fix and test and whatnot and then another day to drive back so about 3-4 days total for the trip

Make the trip to Loreauville,You got something screwed up

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_ExCn2xo7Q[/youtube]

here's a video of the motor at its best. I have another one of it at its worst I'll get up soon. Its gonna go into a nearby briggs dealer tomorrow to work out the issues. From what I understand, the float jet of the carb may be sticking causing the motor to run very rich, hindering RPM's under load and fouling the spark plugs.

I ran the motor today in my driveway for 45 seconds at idle, pulled the plugs and there was liquid fuel on them and reeked of fuel which basically confirms the belief that the motor is shooting way too much fuel into the mixture causing the plugs to become fouled, which in turn is causing the popping, stuttering, ect once the plugs are fouled, which is also the reason why I'm running 3000-3100 under load and not the full 3600-3800.

Could very well be your problem. Let us know how it goes.

Well shit y'all, here's the latest updates...

Carb was bad, for sure. Got it replaced under warranty and we're not fouling plugs anymore, I've put 4 hours on the motor since the carb change and pulled the plugs and they look great! I'm still only running around 3100-3200 at 16-18 in deep water with loads varying from one to three people and current/tide conditions. In the shallows today by myself, this thing opened the eff up. I hit 21-22 mph at what RPM's I dont know b/c my tiny tach is out. The thing was alive like i've never seen it. I would go from deep to shallow water and watch the bow and in the deep it was high and in the shallow it would get low and the motor would rev up and my wake would v out and become smaller. Also, the boat runs 17-18 in the shallows with me (260) and my little brothers (190, 200). This basically tells me that I need trim tabs to get the same performance in deep water. For once in this experience, I am satisfied with this motor and I know that with more work it could be a screamer. I know that with a little more work and modification this motor could be unreal. Kyle advised me to step up to the 35 if I want more power but I'm getting the feeling that I could have a much better hp/weight ratio by taking the money to upgrade to the 35 and putting it into mods. With exhaust, carb, heads, and cams this thing would easily push over 30 hp and could be runnin with the big boys along with the saved weight of the 23 block vs the 35.

Thanks all for all of your help and Hopefully I'll end up at the LA mud run in july!

Get the 35 and be done with it!!!

I guess y'all are right ... How much do you think I could get for a 23 GTR with 8 hours on it?

I'll give you two grand right now.