^^^

TRUTH.

Will it work though if you have a more aggressive style of heads/cam? I mean 90% of people will probably have a custom set or grind made. Will this throw off the system or is there an "acceptable setting" AFR that will work for these aggressive mods?

Any more news on this? When can we expect pricing and details?

That Mako kit is going to cost a small fortune.

I'm getting 2674+whatever the tuner costs.

Is there any hope for a tuner that you can actually tune yourself? I like the idea and probably will just get this but if I go a different route with my motor and port it and increase airflow differently than yall did I'd like to be able to set my own tune.. Kind of like the power commander tuners for atvs, just something that allows you to increase/decrease fuel as needed to adjust the afr.

So are you recommending that a person adds an O2 sensor with your tuners? As you know, the Briggs EFI is open loop and doesn't use an O2. Or are you just recommending adding a stand alone wideband for monitoring purposes....

10-4... +\- 5% will only cause damage or make a noticeable difference if you're on the ragged edge already. Id really like to put a wideband on mine just to see where it runs with the stock tuning.

I'll tell you first hand that mine is lean. Plugs and piston tops already tell me that after 30hrs. Not dangerously lean but leaner than most leave them when setting up a carb. I usually do the same to compensate for changing weather conditions. I haven't ran mine in cold weather yet but I anticipate no issues. I guess I'll start poking around at some wideband setups. Need something vibration and weather resistant enough to live in what we'd put one through.

Glade, with there be anything on the intake side included with these kits or are the maps based on using the stock briggs air cleaner?

That stock air cleaner can support more power than the briggs can make im sure.

You think so? I don't know, I know this ain't a motorcycle engine, but just putting a better flowing air cleaner, exhaust, and tune on a small 1200cc HD engine makes a huge relative difference in power and torgue. Stock you'd be around 50-55 ft/lbs and after exhaust, good air cleaner, and dyno tune, you're knockin on 80 ft/lbs. The stock cleaner just seems so bulky and inefficient, seems like a more open to the elements design K&N/mikuni style air cleaner, a la a Harley Davidson heavy breather,would allow a higher volume of air in.

That's effectively what you are doing with installing a Mikuni kit, getting more fuel and more air into the cyclinders. So I would think the 02 would need some attention along with the fuel to get the most out of the motor. That's typical stage one on cars, bikes, etc. air cleaner, exhaust, and fuel map tune.

My local B&S guy that had to get the EFI software and everything from Briggs seems to think that you can adjust the AFR with the Briggs software. Anyone know if this is true? Also seems like you'd be flying blind without having the motor hooked up to a dyno. I guess the wideband sensor would give you some idea of what you'd need to adjust.

There will be a custom k&n filter included with all the kits.

The Briggs ECM is "locked". Nobody can change afr on it.

Ok, gotcha. That's what I had heard, he seemed to think otherwise. Good to know about the K&N filter, with there be any warranty offered if the kits are installed at an authorized BPS performance center?

Someone will crack it. Gm ecms were locked too, and they are all flash tuneable, Not piggybacked. I personally know of one briggs (Delphi ECM) that was flash tuned aswell. BTW briggs did not develop the EFI for the big block, They used a Delphi system that is VERY similar to Harleys Delphi system.

If it's a locked system, how are the fueling changes being made? Are you tricking sensor s to add or take away fuel? Easily done with intake air temp (if it's got that input) or with head temp

I haven't messed with the HD EFI much other than maintenance stuff on my ol man's bike but it seems to be a really simple and robust type system. Things fail, but I don't think we'll see a whole new list of issues specific to mudmotors. The components are well made. Some of the problems so far have been specific to the wiring harness which is a Briggs deal from what I understand, not Delphi.

Harley uses the same black plastic delphi housing, but that's where the similarities end. The "guts" are completely different.

I spent a week with the Briggs EFI engineering team testing the system at 10,000 ft elevation, so we had lots of time to discuss how the system works, and what we can, and cannot do to it.

Glade, is there a different tuner for each kit, or does one the same one work with all three kits? If I'm getting headwork done by a local shop, K&N air cleaner, cam, and a performance exhaust, pistons/rods, but not bought specifically from BPS, do you think the tuner will be flexible enough to cover these mods, or will it not be as flexible for slight differences between BPS components and non BPS components?

He refers to it as experimenting with other parts... So I'm sure he won't be able to tell you that it will work. However, if airflow numbers and compression ratios and camshaft profiles are similar to their parts it stands to reason the fueling will be close.

----this is precisely why I would really like the ability to tune mine myself. I would assume there's a safety factor in their tuning. If not, I'd be surprised. That means power and efficiency being left on the table. Being open loop, the parts and their performance would have to be pretty close since there is no O2 sensor to suggest adjustments back to the ECM. I'm currently looking into a small, compact and tough enough wideband system that we could install and be self contained on the engine to keep an eye on things. A center console setup would be super easy... A tiller will be a challenge getting one to fit, mount cleanly, and be vibration and weather proof enough for our use.

One Neptune contains 3 maps.

"He refers to it as experimenting with other parts... So I'm sure he won't be able to tell you that it will work. However, if airflow numbers and compression ratios and camshaft profiles are similar to their parts it stands to reason the fueling will be close."

Exactly. But like I said, nobody should be "experimenting" without a wideband setup.

Glade,,,so what are they running AFR wise stock?