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| 35 GD vs BackH2O https://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45324 |
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| Author: | LucasB [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Does anyone know which one will run faster and be better in vegetation? Ups and down? |
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| Author: | Trousertrout [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I have never ran a gd and I have very little lt experience. All I can say is that every day I take my bw out it amazes me. Also the lack of grease and maintenance is great. Another huge gap between the two is costumer service. I have had the bw for 2 months now. I have talked with Arlen at backh20 once a week now because he wants to know how things are going. He said since they switched the bearing system 4 years ago he hasn't had one bearing go bad. Pretty amazing. Where are you located? |
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| Author: | LucasB [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
louisiana |
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| Author: | Trousertrout [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I am sure you have gd dealers around you and I know Minnesota is far from you but i am confident you will make the right decision and go bw. |
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| Author: | coyote29 [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I spoke with Arlen a while back an he told me free shipping to my place in Louisiana. So don't lit shipping effect your decision. |
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| Author: | quackhunter99 [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
How would you know what go devil customer service is like if you've never even ran one? I can tell you from personal experience that if you call their office there's a good chance you will speak to coco, you know the guy that pioneered the American longtail? |
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| Author: | FRANKtheTAU [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Go-Devil does have good customer service. And I've ran their motors for years. They've been around for a long time and they serve their purpose. However, I bought my Back Water over a year ago and if you are buying brand new, there is absolutely no comparison. Back Water is hands down the best long tail mud motor you can buy. Do a quick search on this sight and try to find ONE complaint about these motors. Not gonna happen. These long tails from Back Water don't leak ANY grease. They're faster than a Go-Devil of the same horse power. They don't shake, rattle, and vibrate to death. And they are extremely easy to drive. I could really go on and on but I hope you get the idea. Call the guys a Back Water and see if they can set you up with one of their current customers who lives close to you and you can go test drive one of their motors. If you have any other specific questions, PM me. |
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| Author: | Trousertrout [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
| Author: | LucasB [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 1:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I just wanted to know if they were good in thick vegetation and stumps like in Louisiana swamps |
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| Author: | Trousertrout [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 2:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Oh yea back to Lucas. I hit a lot of shit. The swamp I hunt is solid lilies and arrowheads that are on average 2 foot high. I have 5 inches of water on top of the balls of roots. There are holes in between the root balls that allow my motor to dig a little deeper. So I have to go wot all the time to stay on step. All the logs and stumps I hit are while I am doing 15 to 20 mph. Today I hit a doozy and shot the handle out of my hand. No problems. Could have grabbed a cuople wood ducks today going fast threw the lilies. The videos on backh20 do not do them justice. If you want I can send you video if you pm me your number |
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| Author: | muddewatrs [ Thu Sep 12, 2013 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I don't want to get in the middle of a pxxxxxn' match over which motor is best. What I can tell you is that I bought a glider (frame only, no engine) from BackH20 and intended to put my engine (23hp Vanguard) on it. Long story short, my engine was shot, and I ended up buying a new engine and installing it on the frame. My buddy and I had it on the workbench, not connected to the boat. We started it up on the workbench, and walked around it checking for vibration and such, and generally congratulating ourselves. ZERO vibration, even on the workbench. We even revved it up to 3500-3600 rpm, still on the bench and still no vibration. Every time I have called there, Jake answers and gets me fixed up pronto. Made me a customer for life! Mudde |
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| Author: | Basher 183 [ Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I have the SWOMP 35SS on a Tracker 1648. I've added pods and chopped 4 in out of the transom. It is not a mud boat, but it does pretty good with that motor on it. We hunted in this slop on opener last week end. A couple inches to knee deep, full of duck weed, lilly's and cat tail, just thick. My boat dug out of there, but we had to push a 1754 Beavertail with a SD out of there. Maybe someone can chime in here, but the only issue I have with my motor in the heavy salad is it digs in. The weeds get twisted up on top of the cavitation plate and it pulls the prop deeper. I've been playing with the depth adjuster and when I go back into the skinny stuff, I dial it way up. That keeps it out of the junk, but then I have to dial it back down to bet my boat on plane. I am guessing I need to set it so the prop is on the surface at plane. |
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| Author: | Glades Ranger [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
My sentiments about GD are similar to Frank's. I had two of them and they were good but even the 2004 MB 27 LT I have now is a significant improvement over the GD design. Everything I hear about Backh20 is good. Basher, I also have a 1648 grizzly tracker. Was your transom 20"? Is that why you cut it down? Did you add the pods because of too much squat in the back because of the 35's weight? My next motor will probably be a BackH20 but I may stay with the 27 because of what you've had to do to make your tracker perform correctly. Although the 35 may have more top end, I don't want to add the extra weight and lose performance. I usually hunt by myself occasionally two hunters and gear so I believe the 27 will suffice. Both my previous two 25 Kohlers and my current 27 have been very reliable. What attracts me to the BackH20 is the reduced vibration, easier planning, easier drivability, and the very reasonable price for a reliable LT design. I understand GD has improved their seals and there is no longer the excessive grease loss but they still use the sleeve bearings. Lucas, there is no substitute for a test drive- hopefully you can find a local owner and check it out. |
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| Author: | 139sst [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 5:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Gladesranger, I saw a 35 gdlt while scouting on toho. motor was on a 1648 grizzly and was running very nice. looked to be running mid twenties with two men. planed out nice and not plowing. I would not be scared at all of the 35. |
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| Author: | Glades Ranger [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
139sst, that is welcome news! The only decision for me then, would be deciding between the 59"SS or regular 72" BackH20 models. My left arm is still viable and to be able to go 20-22 mph with two hunters and gear versus 17 mph at present is a big deal. |
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| Author: | Glades Ranger [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Lucas, do not mean to hijack this thread. Basher, what size prop are you using on the 35? I see MB lists a 10x5 and BackH20 lists a 9x8, I know where you run (altitude is one factor) may determine prop selection. For example, my 27 is rated for the 9x7 but the 9x6 runs better for me. Appreciate any input on this. Lucas, let us know what you get and how it runs! |
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| Author: | riverrambler [ Sat Sep 28, 2013 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
just built 18x46 slick bottom and put a 59SS on it and really like it still doing some fine tuning on it but run 22 to 24 constant switched to this setup after running a 17x46 SD rig for a year sacrificed speed of SD but the places the longtail will go with ease is great , customer service at Back water is great to. |
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| Author: | 139sst [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Lucasb , I would buy a go-devil for sure if you hunt salt water. I hunt tampa bay and Merritt island and have never had a bushing failure or any go devil frame failure for that matter. I have pulled in my friends mud buddy 29 Kawasaki several times for various reasons , some were lower bearing issues. I have never seen a backwater in person . If you hunt strictly fresh water it probably won't make a difference which brand you run. The godevil frame is also stout enough to lever your transom if you get hung or stuck. |
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| Author: | OlSchool [ Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
| Author: | brokefarmboy82 [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I have to say I disagree about long tails having more in the water to hang up. I have had both and the water hyacinth is the reason I ended up with a gdlt because the sd kept me stuck, hell I almost missed thanksgiving dinner in 2011. I had a mud buddy sd and it drug up crap around that housing all the time and then when u get stuck there's no reach. You can always find a soft pocket with the lt. You can ease through things instead of having to plane over it wide open and hope for the best. I like mud buddy's service as well as gd and I have also talked with Arlon and theyre all friendly and helpful. |
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| Author: | Honky Kong [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I love my SWOMP 23. Almost no vibration and super easy to steer. At idle you can pretty much spin on a pivot. Turning around in a tight spot is no problem. Jake has been super helpful with any questions I have had. I'm very glad I went with a SWOMP. |
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| Author: | brokefarmboy82 [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I hope I can get a swomp someday, but for now I'm good. |
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| Author: | Duckland [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 5:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I have no experience in LT MM but I read a lot about it. I plan to build my first LT soon. Can you explain me why the GDLT has to be greased every day and not BackH2O ? What is the difference in the seal configuration between them ? |
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| Author: | Glades Ranger [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
In all fairness to GD, the greasy mess that was usual with their motors some years back, is no longer quite the case as I was informed on this site that they have greatly improved their seals. The main difference between the two is the type of bearings- GD uses bronze sleeve bearings while the competition ( MB, BW, etc.) generally uses roller bearings. GD advertises that their bearings if they fail, will not prevent you from getting back to the ramp. I have heard of only a couple roller bearing failures. My 2004 MB 27 LT is still going strong...I only have to add grease every third trip or so, and very little at that. The top bearing is greased only a couple of times a season- the mfg. clearly states that over-greasing could damage the bearing/seal. One point I could argue convincingly is that the roller bearing system generally results in much less friction, and the consequent vibration. From reports here and elsewhere, BW's taken this a step farther with their over-built tubular frame vs. the flat frame used by GD, MB, and others. The third difference that BW has established is their cavitation plate design, which from all reports produces a more efficient planing depth and easier drivability. I think this is more greatly appreciated with the bigger block motors like the 23, 27, 31, and 35 HP which produce a lot more torque and are harder to drive than the smaller ones. The two GD's I've had were fairly easy to service; at least the lower seals and bearing because you did not have to remove the shaft. There were two rubber washers initially and I would advise you to look on the GD website to see how this appears today. I've only looked at my roller bearing and seal assembly on a schematic because I've never needed to take it apart. I am hoping that BW, as has MB with their short-production run SLT, produces a hex hub/ easier removal prop system, as this has often been a biatch for most owners. |
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| Author: | 139sst [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Glades ranger, go devil uses a bronze bushing , it's not even a bearing in the lower housing. The beauty is in the simplicity, nothing to fail but also most slop and probably a friction wear point. Also probably has more vibration than other units. I would still buy godevil if hunting the salt. |
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| Author: | brokefarmboy82 [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
The gdlt 35 also sports a 7/8 shaft and double u-joint. If u change upper seals once and lower seals twice a year and power up thixogrease the tube, the gd is basically bulletproof. Though not the smoothest.....at all. |
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| Author: | Basher 183 [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
| Author: | FRANKtheTAU [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
| Author: | 139sst [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Or you could get the 35 SWOMP, not worry about bearings, seals, or grease for a several hundred hours, and have a bullet proof machine. AND it will be smooth[quote][/quote] Frank, the swamp unit uses o rings and 3 bearing system. In Tenn. you would probably never know if the o ring system failed but down on the gulf coast you would be getting a tow. I personally pulled my friends superior mud buddy in several times. IF the seals fail on the go devil it may get crunchy and the bushing may get over honed but you will make it in. |
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| Author: | Trousertrout [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I am in the same boat as far as not getting a tow. But I am confident in the reliability considering bw has never had bearings go bad since they switched the setup about 4 years ago |
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| Author: | Glades Ranger [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
139sst, if I ran any salt water, I would probably go outboard around here. Actually, when I hunted salt water years ago- coastal southern Biscayne bay- we used conventional outboards and ran in as far as we could and then lugged the boats to shore and camoed up. The tide would leave us dry and we would have to drag the boats to where they could float and that was that. Development has shut us out of that type of hunting and we have to hunt inland fresh water marsh, which is hard bottom and usually shallow so the LT shines. I salute Coco and the pioneering he did with GD and he still has a great product, both in LT and SD format- the new mfg.'s like BW have simply taken the LT to new level. |
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| Author: | brokefarmboy82 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
I would have some kind of larger mud motor for my bow fishing rig if I knew anyone who bow fished with a mud motor. Can u bow fish with a longtail? |
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| Author: | 139sst [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
You can do anything with a longtail. |
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| Author: | North LA Hunter [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
| Author: | brokefarmboy82 [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 35 GD vs BackH2O |
Gotta get a bigger one, though. |
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