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| Really been considering duals https://www.mudmotortalk.com/mmt_v2/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50761 |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Really been considering duals |
Now that I'm starting to get some of the bugs worked out of my setup, I guess I'm starting to figure out more what I like. I like the longtails, over a surface drive for several reasons so I'm sticking with it. I'm considering building a dual Longtail rig that will do it all. Hunt, fish, camp, bowfish you name it. Timber, mud, vegetation, open water, it won't care. I'm in close enough proximity to lots of types of terrain. I primarily run timber but I am subject to end up anywhere. My question, what's the minimum width you'd mount dual longtails on? Looking for something in the 17x52 range, maybe 18 long. Pointed bow, open floor etc. Is it as easy as mounting two Longtail frames together and then putting them on a common mount/tiller? They'd also need to be connected about half way down to Id assume? Main thing that spurred the dual Longtail thoughts is load carrying. I'm good as long as I keep my weight to a minimum, past a point it's game over. I want to be able to mount a bow fishing platform, carry a big cooler or two, gear etc and not drop speed like crazy. I realize the speed will drop off some but I see these dual surface drives to from 30 empty to 28 loaded to the gills and it makes me a bit jealous I'll admit. I want the versatility I have now but with lots more load carrying ability. Is it feasable?? |
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| Author: | msm8281 [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Go devil has experience with duals. Id get with them. |
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| Author: | Buzz Killington [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Id call the boys at Backwaterinc.com and tell them your ideas |
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| Author: | Cajunwannabe [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Forget duals an hunt down Quackshot for a VW longtail engine. I think weight wise you'd be better with one large Harley Davidson or VW engine vs. dual engines. Build a boat with a hunt deck and that thing will get skinny and really scoot. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
The HD V twin has tempted me.... Esiecially since I have a fresh S&S 80ci top to bottom sitting on the bench to go in a bike.... Soooo damn tempting. Never heard of the VW setup. Probably cool as hell lol |
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| Author: | Cajunwannabe [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I think his video is on here somewhere. |
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| Author: | eljefe [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I've seen dual motors on one frame. Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | btmannin [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Yea the dual engine, single frame was mud buddy's answer to godevil's twin 23's if I remember correctly |
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| Author: | Swamper01 [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Didnt mud buddy quit making those awhile back? |
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| Author: | btmannin [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Yea I think so I was just sayin who made it |
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| Author: | Woodiebuster [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
A single with a Harley and a back water style Cavitation plate and frame set up would be a beast. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I know I could make 75-80hp pretty easily and reliably with an HD, I've done it too many times before. I'd need to come up with a flywheel/starter setup. Oil tank of some sort since it's dry sump and probably go to a 7/8 or bigger shaft. A properly built big twin would snap a 3/4 like a dry twig if it really bit hard on a root or something, hell, I worry about that now with my 20hp. I've seen one of the dual engine mud buddy's and it was a hermaphrodite looking POS. I'd run duals before I ran one of those. The main advantage to the HD I can see is gobs and gobs of tq any time you wanted it. You'd be able to swing a surface drive sized prop fully submerged with the thing. That's the only way it would be able to match the load carrying ability of duals. I was considering duals in the 27-30hp range |
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| Author: | chaseh [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Do the Harley motor and don't look back Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | autogateman [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Man I'm not one to really argue on here anymore, but you will be thoroughly dissapointed in the torque of an HD twin without significant gear reduction. SD gear ratios are equivalent to about fourth gear on a 5 speed HD transmission. Not much torque in 4th. That engine at 1.2:1 would fall on its face I assure you. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I have to disagree... My 74ci shovel head in 4th (1:1) even with really tall gearing has no problem passing folks or climbing pretty much any hill without ever coming close to needing to downshift. All it's got is some home brew head work, cams and an S&S carb. Nothing exotic, hell it still runs a fixed distributor ignition with manual advance. Granted it's not in a heavy bike but it's no featherweight either, and neither am I... This 80ci I have on the table is an evo with better heads, carb and a cam that matches and an electronic ignition... A much better put together setup than what's on mine so I'd have to assume it will make better power still. I'm not sold on cannibalizing my project bike yet though. I would probably build an engine just for this Longtail experiment if I were to choose to try it out. Honestly, I'm still not sold on the fact that it would handle a load better than dual lawn motor engines lol |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
.. |
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| Author: | Glades Ranger [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 4:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Keep on tinkering! What about expanding on the MB Superlongtail format? Include a gear reduction via a belt drive and then use a larger prop, maybe incorporate the BackH20 cavitation plate, use a big block, say a 35 modded to 45 HP?? This way you keep the weight down, single unit steering is better, you obtain neutral via the clutch on the belt, and so on? I think MB has stopped making the SLT, anyway I think there are opportunities to improve that design. |
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| Author: | flatontheplatte [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
What size duals were you thinking? I used to run a dual 23hp GD setup and it was a bear! Seems like you would be better off going with a 35 and hop it up a bit or stick with the HD idea. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I was thinking about dual 27's on a good size hull. Albeit most likely a production hull but it will be better suited than what I have now. I think it would probably be too much on my 1548 even with the ginormous pods on it. If a 35 with a few mods will do what I want then great! But I don't know if it will. Not after a drag boat, I want to only drop 2-4mph from unloaded to full load. The 20 is plenty strong for what it is but simply lacks the displacement to do what I want. As far as man handling a big Hp Longtail or duals.... I'm 6ft and around 240-250... I should be ok if it's balanced well. |
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| Author: | Buzz Killington [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Ohh! The harley predator! Forgot about that one... Yeah, get one of these.... |
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| Author: | autogateman [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I don't think it would be that drastic as the prop in the water would offer more "slip" than pavement and a tire. Wouldn't you think? |
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| Author: | indawoods [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rd2d3PQSiA |
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| Author: | Woodiebuster [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
If a 35 hp lawnmower engine can spin a prop in the mud, a HD can do it no problem |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
kinda what I thought.... Ive watched that video a dozen times.... I just wish they would show one with some weight in it. It does have some shots of the prop, the thing is pretty damn good size!! |
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| Author: | Buzz Killington [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
That motor is beyond awesome |
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| Author: | Buzz Killington [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
And sounds Amazeballs |
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| Author: | FRANKtheTAU [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
1:28 Looks like PLENTY of torque for me! I'd love to see someone bad enough to wind the throttle all the way up and then dump the prop in the water! |
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| Author: | da go get'er [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Keeping the hd from running hot at idle is the issue if I remember right. Check out the mud viper on here as well. It's a homemade with a hd engine |
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| Author: | kibb [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Dual 27s will probably kick your ass in the thick stuff. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I would think a small electric fan would be plenty to cool one. Mine has no problem idling in traffic for an hour at a time though. I rarely am in real bad mud. Mostly just water too shallow for an outboard and timber. 27's would haul the mail too. I wouldn't say someone would be bad if they wound it out and dunked the prop.. I'd call them wet! Lol. They'd definitely get their asses chunked out if they weren't tied off 
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| Author: | autogateman [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
The guy in that video is the one who told me himself that he tried it and it fell on its face. |
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| Author: | autogateman [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
http://www.nightrider.com/biketech/hplist_evo80.htm They're really not that powerful people. |
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| Author: | Woodiebuster [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
So a HD has less power than a 35 Briggs? You aren't comparing apples to apples Rod. The old Beavertail Predators were beasts |
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| Author: | autogateman [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I'm not saying that at all! They're only about 60 hp, which isn't that far off from a modded 35 vanguard. Yes they'll last a long time, but unless you go with a highly modified Harley or comparable engine it's not worth the time and money to make it work. Now slap an Orca Racing Evo engine on it and we're talking!!! |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
I'm not necessarily talking about a stock engine here though. If you look at that chart all the ones with heads and cam are 80hp and up. Which is what I'd be looking at. A simple build with off the shelf parts makes 80+ and will live forever basically if maintained. We've put almost 75K miles on my pops Electra-Glide with these same mods making about 80-85Hp. His was a stock bottom end with S&S jugs, heads, carb, a custom grind cam and Keith Black pistons. We assembled it. Still running it's ass off today and he sold it 2-3 yrs ago. Probably has over 100K on it. Granted, an air cooled engine with that many hours/miles is probably in need of a freshen up but my point is, normal wear will get it before broken parts will. What all would need to be done to a 35hp Vanguard/Briggs to make it to 60hp? And then, what kind of reliability issues would you be looking at? Rocker bosses breaking? Pushrods? Leaky cases? I plan on calling Go-Devil today and asking specifically questions about load carrying with a long tail. If anyone would know, those guys would. |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 7:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
... |
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| Author: | SETx Longtail [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Talked to BackH2O and Go-Devil today and both steered me away from a dual setup, like I figured they'd do. Both steered me away from the HD setup like I figured they'd do, and both tried to sell me one of their own 35hp motors. Just like I figured they would They both made claims of being able to way overload boats and get on plane etc, CoCo's example being a load of lumber... Several hundred board-feet, and BW's being a moose laid across the boat.... If they can honestly do that sort of work then I'd be inclined to go with either one haha... At this point I'm back to where I was in the beginning, looking at the 35hp SWOMP. The engineering they put into the frame alone says a lot to me. Not to mention the $400 difference in price. The power head is identical, prop size is the same... |
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| Author: | DrahthaaRunner [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 4:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
Auto does have a good point about the HD motor and torque because a heavily modded 96 cu in motor will put out about 110 hp and torque. Where ass these small briggs motors make a lot more torque then hp. They also spin way less rpms. A modded HD motor can sping about 9000 and the brigs motors are no where near that. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | FRANKtheTAU [ Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Really been considering duals |
You can't go wrong with that 35 SWOMP. I love mine and couldn't be happier. |
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