If we hook the wideband sensors up after modding the motor, what afr's should we be shooting for at low, mid, high rpms?

It's all over the place, but mostly lean @ low range, and rich @ high range

By the way, where were you testing at 10k ft elevation?

A lake in the Wasatch Mountains in Utah.

Why didn't briggs allow flash tuning? it is much more precise than piggy backing. I am sure it is more complex than briggs giving the ok. Moreso Delphi IMO.

That's gotta be beautiful I like to ski up there couldn't picture running a mm

Any more news on when this is going to be rolled out?

Subscribed.

Is this gonna be just for the Briggs or are they gonna have something for the 25 Subaru's too?? I know people have been begging for those, including myself.

No plans for the 25.

Not enough demand to justify the ridiculous amount of time, and dollars I have into the Briggs setup

So is the programming adjustable at the end user level?

The way it reads to me is that this is just a tune that works well with BPS parts and may be somewhat compatible with similar mods.

Same old story. On a positive note, now that mud buddy is using the subaru you may have a little better chance. But even still small block sales are a fraction of the total mm sales.

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Since you have been dynoing these motors a lot what is the best afr to be running. Talking hp/torque wise. Theirs a guy running heads and a 308 cam with his afr at 13.4 witch is very close to what you had mentioned above

As crude as these engines were pre EFI, why all of a sudden so precise!

What I mean by that is, sell carb kits and parts for years with no concern for AFR! Now it's so precise that it's rocket science!

If you were going to peddle a "tuner", you'd do the same thing to encourage people to buy your mods, since the tuner is only setup to work with those mods.

Don't bring up the carb, tchauvin. That's obsolete, now. <_<

I seriously doubt tuner is needed

This has been such a tease, come on out with the stuff! We gots to get to da honey hole!

FWIW, Stoich AFR is determined by fuel type. Not by fuel delivery. Stoichometric ratio for gasoline is 14.68. As a rule for good power you usually shoot for being at little rich at peak torque and lean it out from there as RPM increases. Timing and can also change the AFR of an engine at a certain load/RPM. Not drastically but it can optimize it by changing the speed and completeness of the burn. Also, two engines may not run the same at a given AFR. That's why different engines with the same mode may end up being jetted differently with a carb. In my experience with other tuning scenarios 12.7-13.0 is usually where you want to be.

Is this something that you are going to release in a week, month, year, years?

A little too costly for my blood: http://www.backwaterperformancesystems. ... ath=67_196

Why's all the fun stuff gotta be so dang expensive


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I just added it up and for the caiman it's 800 for just the tune.. It's 330 per hp you get and that only adds up to 6 hp..

Ouch. If its the same one for the EFI, look for that E4665 K&N on Amazon, its half the price.

Those prices are with installation, correct?

What I would like to know is why the stage one kit is 1800 on top of the efi motor price 8195 which comes to a little over 10,000$ plus the cost of shipping and the cost for someone to install, which at this point for most people would about a 6 hour drive so go ahead and figure another 600-1000$ to that price, on top of that with the efi stage one it only makes 43hp!!! The carbed motor makes 44hp is $600 cheaper on the sticker price, come already installed on the motor (no added shop fee or cost) and if anything goes wrong with the motor I can take it to any Briggs dealer to have it resolved vs the efi where maybe 1in 10 dealers have the equipment and know how to work on the efi system. Yea pretty slick to charge that much from a company stand point but from the consumer that's ridiculous

I did see on thier Facebook page they are selling just the tuner @ $400.00. But, I dont see it on thier website. With just heads, tune, and gaskets you are somewhere around $1020

Those prices are CRAZY, the price of the tuner alone is pretty insulting. I know there was a lot of R&D done on this, but how is BPS going to recoup any cost when a customer is considering making the choice to void his warranty and getting an extra 6hp for a motor he spent 9k on, installed. $75 for the K&N too, seriously? That damn Mako package better be an damn airboat motor swap out charge and have me flying through the marsh on some kind of hovercraft.

How about some damn marketing on these, videos, speeds or something. This certainly doesn't have me itching to cut a check for this stuff. And you are locked in with the BPS parts, IM heads being concerning to me.

I was excited before because I've seen what a good tune, heads, intake, and exhaust can do for motorcycle twins, but these gains are not as high as I would've thought. Plus they don't have the tuner for sale separately, which I thought they would. A damn MB HDR4400 is $9550 which has the same mod's and you'd be looking at about 11k for around the same HP with the Caiman.

I heard through the grapevine that PD is working on their own tune, and mods for the EFI's so I'm gonna play the wait and see game.

I really don't see BPS selling many of these to end users, it just doesn't make sense. If you've got the coin, why take the risk for such a low return, and you've got to install everything or pay someone to do it, so there's even more cost, and it's unproven and if there are any bugs and you damage the motor you are SOL.

Somebody smart- make something better and price it fairly and SELL me on your product and convince me why I should buy it. Voiding the Briggs warranty is a big deal especially on motors that are already problematic.