Anybody on here big into the gun stuff?
Been getting more into guns lately and thought a SBR or something might be next on my list.

Is it worth all the trouble and dealing with the gov?

Holla at bigrich.

go read this first!
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/1 ... heres-how/

Good posts. We have a local smith/shop that is great with the process. Usually you can tell them you plan on ordering through them and they will take you through the whole process.

just buy or build u a bullpup and save yourself some money and a headache!!!

What questions do you have?

I can tell you this much. Machine guns are out of reach for the average person for the most part. Either due to cost or due to ammo costs. A transferrable Mac subgun is about the cheapest at $3k-$5k. For something like a transferrable M16, MP5 so on...you are looking at minimum, on a good day, deal of the century at $10k. Real world prices are around(usually over) $20k. Thompsons, BARs and that sort of thing are $50k or even $100k.

Suppressors, SBRs and AOWs are much more attainable for the average person. Costs nothing more than the $200 tax stamp and the cost to build or buy. SBR's are a lot of fun and quite useful. Fuck a bullpup. Inferior design for mag changes and usually the case ejection is fucked ten ways from Sunday making malfunction clearing difficult. The only upside to a bullpup is SBR length without the tax stamp.

Back to Class III. The easiest way to do it is to get a gun trust created. There are multiple reasons. Number one no Chief LEO sign off. For most of us living down south it isn't too much trouble to get them to sign off on the Form 1 or Form 4. But, sometimes they balk. With the trust, no sign off. Because it is owned by the trust, not an individual. Which leads to the next part. Spouses. If you buy a class III, it will be registered with the feds. It will be registered to you. The paperwork will have your and only your name. Therefore if your spouse shoots, you better be with her/him if they take it to the range. With a trust, you add them to the trust and they have access and use as much as they want. It also makes the process easier when you pass.

The other reason for a trust is still a bit open right now but it may very well be possible to manufacture new machine guns under a trust. The federal statute reads that an individual may not own, possess, purchase blah blah machine guns manufactured after May 1986. Some folks read this, sent in paperwork to manufacture a new machine gun under a trust and the ATF actually approved and sent the tax stamps. They then realized and asked for the stamps back. That is an ongoing legal battle as we type.

So, all in all. Class III is fun. But brings a whole new level of buying, options and cost. Tread lightly my friend, tread lightly.

that being said , back to the headache and not to mention u open ur door to the feds. not trying to start a argument or anything , but for the original poster of this thread its not worth it for ya!

it puts u on there radar is what im saying

It can be a pain in the ass to get everything in order, but once it's done it's worth it in my opinion. A trust is definitely the way way to go for numerous reasons.

I have a type 3 FFL as well, for all C&R weapons.

You gotta be 21 before you can buy stuff like that Mitchell.


Sent from my beeper

I'm an attorney in FL and I prepare NFA-specific trusts for people interested in possessing NFA items. If there's anything in particular you'd like to know about the benefits and drawbacks of the three means of ownership (trust, corporation, individual ownership), let me know. The trust is by far the best choice.

Anyone who says it isn't worth it is somebody who doesn't have one. The usefulness and value of a .22 rimfire suppressor is incredible. My wife and I shoot on the back of our property (with a dirt mound backstop) in a residential neighborhood and nobody minds at all. It's about as loud as quietly closing a screen door.

So far, Sir Bacon has already said everything I would have said. Full auto is pricey but everything else is reasonable. In fact, after the Sandy Hook shooting, SBR AR-15s were the only items left on the shelves and the price never really went up because so few of us could actually buy them.

I know someone somewhat local. Let me know if you want an introduction. He can get you whatever you need, or help you figure out the specifics/logistics of getting the trust stuff done, or if you just want to do it yourself (though I suggest a trust).

I'm not trying to sell you guys anything; I only prepare trusts for folks in Florida.

Do the trust. If you don't, you're at the mercy of the local sheriff/"Chief Law Enforcement Officer" (this can also be a circuit court judge, etc.) to sign off on your paperwork. With the trust, you completely circumvent local law enforcement and everything is handled by BATF. At any rate, even though you may have someone in office who is not anti-gun/liberal, that can all change with one election. The trust is a very minor up-front cost and you have it the rest of your life.

As far as the $200 NFA Tax Stamp per item goes, it's been $200 since 1934. How many other things can you think of that have stayed the same price since 1934?

The very best marketing I can do to sell trusts is to take 100 rounds of .22 standard velocity or subsonic to a busy shooting range, along with my SWR Spectre II suppressor. I generally end up handing out every business card I have.

Tgunn, wasn't disagreeing with you. And once he reads all this, he'll probably do the trust. I just live right down the road from him and know someone he can go talk to that has done his own, and helped others, that he can speak with face to face to get it all done right.

Woodie, if youre wanting an SBR look into building just an AR pistol with the sig brace. I just did this, fully registered as pistol completely legal and no class 3. I absolutely LOVE the thing, built mine in 300 blackout to maximize ballistic in 8.5" barrel. Only problem is i let my fiance shoot a hog with it now i cant get her to give the damn thing back! Ill post up some pics tomorrow, or try. Just gotta be sure to know the laws-sig brace you are good but any actual stock and its NFA as well as any type of vertical grip turns it from a pistol to NFA. I put a magpul hand stop kit on mine and its comfortable. Just do your research but thanks to sig the pistol route is a easier, cheaper way to a similar firearms.

P.S. i do keep my pistol registration, and copies of the two letters from the ATF that state the sig brace is a non-NFA item folded and stuffed into the storage on my pistol grip

I'll prolly do an ar pistol before long, I've got a lower at the house I need to use, there has been a bit of controversy on the brace as of late though.

If I do the SBR it'll be a AK-74U krink. Those are some badass lil guns

That's why I bought mine when I did...grandfathered in now anything that may change, should be considered "pre-ban" like all the stuff back in the 90s under the assault weapons ban. Granted, its the government you never know

Not to jack your thread but any details on the controversy? I haven't heard about it

So, they officially ruled on that?

When did they make the decision?

Whoa, hang on.

Respectfully, no, they didn't change their prior ruling. When the prior ruling was made, the letter was with respect to an AR lower that was made/registered as a pistol lower, that was intended to be fired with the brace one-handed, like a pistol.

The new ATF letter that "reversed" the decision (it really didn't reverse it) was in response to somebody that asked the letter if he could assemble the same brace on an AR15 registered as a pistol, with the intent of firing it with two hands (like a rifle.) They said "No, that's an SBR."

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/1 ... t-changed/

All this said, do whatever you want to do, but that brace absolutely sucks to use as a stock.

Looks like a gray area...with the government? Lol. I intended to build a pistol with a SIG brace and fire it as a pistol. Guess you just gotta watch your P's and Q's. Its hard to keep up with all the new gun stuff and what goes through and what doesn't so thanks for the update guys, very much appreciated!

http://gunssavelives.net/gun-industry/b ... s-illegal/

Reading this full letter looks like they say it could be considered NFA. I'd avoid the damn things like the plague personally.

I'm not saying whatever I want; I'm explaining what the reason for the ATF ruling was.

If you want to argue, send BATF a letter or better yet hire an attorney. The basis of their denial letter was "intent of the manufacturer;" on the other hand SIG doesn't intend on it being fired with two hands and I'm sure there are plenty of warnings on it to not use it like a rifle.

I also understand how they're used, and as I said previously, they suck as a stock. To anyone who isn't a brokedick out of work tomato picker, it seems to me that the extra $200 for the tax stamp to put a real stock on an SBR would be a no-brainer if you actually want to hit anything with it. But some people aren't very bright---particularly the idiot who wrote them the letter.

The guy who received the denial letter put himself in the position of potentially having to Form 1 his "pistol" since (a) he was manufacturing it and (b) he explained his intent to fire with two hands to BATF. If you buy the same turd of a "pistol" from SIG, neither (a) nor (b) will apply to your circumstance.

You can readily transfer a sig ar pistol across state lines, a sbr not so much. I've shouldered one and its not bad at all IMO.

Yeah this has taken an interesting turn, little too much info for the interweb there woodie. I built my pistol to be used as a pistol, suits my needs just fine. As others have suggested, if you want an SBR pay the tax especially with the gray area around the brace and uncertaintly of the future with it. Hell, ill probably take mine off and run straight pistol buffer tube since these new letters have come out.

No worries, Bacon.

The inconsistencies in these BATF response letters are what happens when BATF allows multiple people to respond to the same or similar issues. You get slight inconsistencies that end up muddying the water.

On top of that, none of these responses are "law," they are merely dicta. They are nothing more than a guide or framework of what the ATF thinks the law would be if it were ruled upon by a federal judge.

So it gets confusing; I think our viewpoints and opinions are the same on the matter and for all either of us know, they could send out a response letter on Monday that changes everything.

Here's the important thing you need to know, guys: Back in December 2014, the legislature was considering making changes to the current NFA trust law in order to try to "close a loophole" [there is no loophole but Democrats love saying it] that ***COULD*** require CLEO signoff for trustees named in the trust. This would be a problem for those of us who use NFA trusts to circumvent CLEO's that won't sign a Form 4. Due to a massive amount of public comment, the legislature has moved the changes back to May, 2015. We don't know what changes will be made.

THEREFORE, IF YOU WANT TO BUY AN NFA ITEM ON A TRUST, GET THE TRUST DONE BY A LOCAL ATTORNEY AND SUBMIT YOUR FORM 1 or FORM 4 BEFORE MAY 2015.

So, you pay 200 for the sbr tax stamp and never hear another peep out of them?

You can carry/conceal it anywhere within the state you could a normal rifle?

Just out of interest what is your min length before its a SBR?

And a side note..I was looking at a wooden boxed 1929 drum fed tompson last night at 8k NZD so somebody is keen on it at 50k usd I'll more than happy to box it up and deliver it.

16" barrel for rifles, 18" for shotguns.