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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Prodrive fouling plugs
Hi everyone. I have a Prodrive 36 efi 2013. Its been fouling plugs like crazy. I just got the spark plug boots fixed so no arcing. I’ve changed the plugs several times. They will foul out in about 20 min. of run time and then starts running like crap. Have been towed back to the ramp twice. That sucks. Just changed the map sensor also. It gave the code for that. I also smell gas in the oil. Checked valves. One side was a little tight. Set everything at 005. I’ve noticed that my primer bulb (mercury bulb) does not stay tight but will pump up good but blends off. Can’t find any leaks. My question is what do y’all think is fouling the plugs and how is gas getting in the oil. My best guess is injectors are leaking by which is also causing the bulb to get loose. I’m am slowly learning about the motors thanks to everyone on MMT. Sorry to be a littler long winded but just trying to give all the info. Thanks in advance.
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Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:02 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Your efi unit is know as the prodrive/ecotrons efi. On the side of your engine is a fuel resivior about the size of your fist, made of aluminum and has some hoses running to it. There is a small hose coming from it that goes to the air intake. It works as a bowl vent to that resivior and if the float/needle in the resivior fail it will send all that extra fuel through the vent line and into the intake. Its somethin worth lookin at anyway.
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Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:46 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
All of that stuff was taken off at Prodrive when I had some warranty work done. My fuel line hits a tee right at the motor. One line goes to the pump mounted on the side of the motor and I think the other is a return line. It’s the one that has the white plastic pressure regulator. At least I think that’s a pressure regulator. I did take the motor apart and pull the injectors. Once out I got my wife to turn the key to make the pumps pressurize the injectors. After about 5 seconds I can see gas start coming out of the injectors. I am gonna order 2 new one today. Do you think all that gas in the oil or just having to much fuel in the cylinder would cause the plugs to foul up so quick. I’m just having doubts that new injectors will fix everything.
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:48 am |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
If they are leaking when the engine is not spinning that's A pretty good sign of leakin injectors. Id say your on the right path
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:28 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I’m waiting on Veronica at ecotron to get back with me on injectors. I’m going to do a couple of oil changes and new plugs and hopefully everything will be ok. I’ll let you know what happens.
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 10:46 am |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
You might want to get a new regulator just in case yours is stuck and over pressurizing the injectors. If its cheap,, why not
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:40 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Will do. Thanks.
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:09 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Do you know which regulator I need. They offer a 25 and 45 psi. If I remember right this system operates at 43 psi. So I’m guessing the I need the 45
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Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:33 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Pretty sure it's around 40's. I would hope they know what psi their Vanguard efi kit is tuned to.
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:11 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
It was the 45 regulator. I think I was dealing with someone that only new how to sell a part as long as a part number is given. She said the tech dept. was off yesterday. It’s all on order. Just hope it makes it by this weekend. Thanks for all the info. I’ll follow up in a few days.
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Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:53 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I got everything thing put on but the spark plugs are still sooting up pretty good. Keep in mind I’m only running it it the driveway. I held it at 2500 rpm for about 5 min and then checked the plugs. Oil is about an 1/8” below hash marks. Talked to J.J at Prodrive and he thinks the ecu might have a glitch telling the injectors to open to often or to long. I’m going to send it to him to check the program on tomorrow. I don’t have anything to check compression to rule out rings but it runs great when it’s running. Just at a loss. Here’s a pic of the plugs. Any ideas will greatly appreciated.
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:08 pm |
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brycecheramie
MMT 1000 Club
Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:38 am Posts: 4323 Location: Cut Off, La.
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
You can’t check plugs running half throttle and under no load. But that sure is a lot of soot
_________________ Refurbishing a Prodrive
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Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:10 pm |
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stualaska
MMT Addict
Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:34 am Posts: 578 Location: North Pole, Alaska
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Have you changed the air filter? It can look clean but have enough water or dust to cause a restriction. I figured this out on mine using a water manometer after going through the same trouble shooting you have.
_________________ so many rivers, so little time
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 2:57 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I have not changed the filter. Never even thought about it being a problem. I will get on amazon and order some tonight. I mailed the ecu back to Prodrive this morning. So hopefully i can rule it out by the end of the week. Thanks
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Sat Jan 13, 2018 5:01 pm |
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Joe Guide
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:58 pm Posts: 159 Location: Coastal North Carolina
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
what has the leak down test shown you?
_________________ Check out "Joe Guide hunting videos" on YOUTUBE...
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:17 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I don’t have the tool to do a leak down test. Guess I need to go buy one. A compression and leak down was done this past October and everything was good then but that was then so something could have happened by now. Can you explain to me how valves would soot the plugs. That’s not a smart a#$ question. Just trying to learn what to look for. Thanks.
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Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:28 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Just done a leak down and it’s 11%
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:03 pm |
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Russ
MMT 1000 Club
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:07 pm Posts: 4820 Location: West Monroe, LA
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
That's actually pretty good for a Briggs lol
#CFFITR #TheGhostBoat #whoneedsphysicsihaveamudmotor
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:12 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I was hoping it was ok. I never mentioned it was an E5 from Prodrive but the heads are from Illowa marine. (Phowler boat co.) I wonder if it’s just carbon build up on the intake valve just like a direct injected engine. I know this is not direct injected. On my wife’s GMC Terrain that is direct injected I use CRC cleaner to clean the carbon off the intake valve every oil change. It keeps the car from miss firing. Works really good. Been doing it for three years. Dealership charges $268 for the exact same cleaning. Enough about that. I would still like to do a compression test if I can come up with the tool. ECU should be here tomorrow.
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:45 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Good deal on your leakdown being good. Was prodrive able to verify if your ecu is mad? Hopefully the ecu takes care of it. Something about this sounds familiar
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:28 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Maybe late for this question but have u made sure the valves aren't too tight and floating
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Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:32 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I checked them first. The starboard side was a tight 6 but I made small adjustments to all four. Set them all to 5. If the ecu don’t fix it I may try a set of coils. Just tracked the ecu and it’s not gonna make it today. Still in Baton Rouge due to the bad weather. Do you think coil #1 could possibly not be shutting off all the way and sending a false voltage to the ecu which is causing the injector to fire when it’s not supposed to. Just a thought. I read on here someone had a motor that would show spark but it still ran like crap. He changed out the coils and it fixed the problem. Think it was a carb motor though. I always thought coils were good or bad. No middle ground.
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:27 am |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I think the coil is possible but unlikely. Did this motor run good and then start acting up or has it been an issue. If your just killing time you can check the sensors by backprobing. Most are three wire sensors. 5v in , ground , and a return signal wire. I found a failed tps sensor this way. FYI a tpi Camaro uses the same tps sensor. Where are u located anyway?
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:19 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
It ran great then just started acting up. Still runs great till the plugs foul and i loose spark. It pushes and 1860 Phowler with a two hundred pound hard blind (homemade) two men,gear,6gallon gas 4 doz decoys and 5 mojos and 4 higdon pulsator, cooler and grill 24 in deep water and 26 in two foot of water. I’m in north Mississippi. 30 miles straight south of memphis. I downloaded the ecotron software last night. I already made the wire to connect to Prodrive’s three pin led connector. I will at least be able to see what everything is doing then.
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:27 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
It ran great then just started acting up. Still runs great till the plugs foul and i loose spark. It pushes and 1860 Phowler with a two hundred pound hard blind (homemade) two men,gear,6gallon gas 4 doz decoys and 5 mojos and 4 higdon pulsator, cooler and grill 24 in deep water and 26 in two foot of water. I’m in north Mississippi. 30 miles straight south of memphis. I downloaded the ecotron software last night. I already made the wire to connect to Prodrive’s three pin led connector. I will at least be able to see what everything is doing then.
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:28 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
On that Camaro. You mean like a 94 with a v6. I’m desperate now. I will try anything. Last week of duck season and everybody else is getting 5,6 and 7 man limits while I’m stuck home with bad motor.
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:52 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Tpi v8 Camaro. Early 90's. If u get linked up to it you can watch all the sensors live
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:12 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Got it. Acdelco 213-896 is the cross reference number. Only $18 on Amazon. May order it for that price. I’m hoping everything links up ok. Can’t remember the guys name at ecotron but he told me what wire to use on a comm cable and what pin it matches to on the three pin that’s on the motor. Hope it works.
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Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:44 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Just got the ecu back. At first it wouldn’t crank. Pulled the plugs. Lots of gas on the plugs. Checked for spark. Pulled the injectors. They are pulsing with a mist. Put them back on. Left one unplugged and tried to start. It fired up. Did the other side by itself and it fired up. Then both together and it fired up. Don’t know what I did but at least it’s running again. But it still has the same problem. It’s running to rich. You can see smoke coming out the exhaust and it smells like gas. The com wire I made to link to the motor don’t work. I used the female end and I needed the male end to plug to the computer. If I can get another boat to go with me I will go run it tomorrow and check the plugs after a long run.
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Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:26 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Man that one is being a pita. Only a handful of sensors on it giving ecu input. One must be off but not off far enough to give a fail code.. what about a popped intake gasket? Wich would lower vacuum and raise fuel pulse..
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Wed Jan 24, 2018 9:22 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Yea your right. Major pain. I got intake gaskets ordered but I cant see where they are leaking. Gonna change them anyway.
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:56 am |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I knew this sounded familiar. I found your post from mid last year when phowler was able to look at it on a laptop and it was the cylinder head temp sensor , are you still close enough to have them plug in and check it again?
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:21 am |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Since you have replaced the map sensor already and have a tps coming, that only leaves 2 sensors left that would do this. Cyl head temp sensor and intake air temp sensor. You can test the return voltage at ecu to pinpoint wich one. Or just order those last 2 sensors, replace them and be done
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 8:48 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
That’s what I’m gonna do. TPS, temp sensor and intake gaskets. I’m 10 hours from Phowler. So he’s out. I’m gonna eventually get to where I can link up to the system. I thought about the temp sensor also keeping it in warm up mode but it always asked back down to around 850rpm
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 9:53 am |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Its not just idle. If either of the sensors read too low it will dump fuel. Or a head temp heading too high will go into overheat protection and dump fuel
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Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:09 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I just got an email from ecotron this morning. I’m gonna order the intake air and block temp sensors. I already have the throttle position sensor. Those three sensors are all I have left to change. I do have a theory. I ran the autolight app3923 all last year but swapped to the ap3923 since that’s all orielly auto had. Never thought that the single platinum would make a difference over the double platinum. I went though a couple of sets of the ap3933 before putting the champion rc12yc back in. Since that I have ran the boat twice with no issues. The only thing I can think of is the AP is to cold and fouling out. I know a lot of people on here run that plug but that’s just my guess. I’m still gonna change all the sensors just Incase it is a sensor cutting in and out. That’s where I’m at now. Hopefully everything stays ok cause the crappie are fixing to get hot.
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Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:59 am |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
Just and update. It’s still burning to much fuel. I’ve replaced the injectors, map, iat, ect, iac motor, throttle position and Prodrive updated ecu. Valves are at 5 and last leak down was 11%. I haven’t done a compression test but I thought the leak down would have showed if it were rings. Don’t have time to go run it tonight. Maybe i can this week. It cranks up immediately and idles great just burning fuel. Don’t know what to do next. Im about ready to fill it with tannerite.
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Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:03 pm |
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shooter
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:59 pm Posts: 406
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
_________________ 32 PD with EVT cam, decked heads, shaved pistons and not enough sense to leave things alone!
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 3:49 pm |
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EGood
MMT Pro Member
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:34 pm Posts: 118
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I thought the same thing about the plugs since so many people run them there is no way that’s it. Just seemed to better with champions. I will continue to run the champions but I’ve still got to figure out why it’s burning extra fuel. Just got intake gaskets today. No one keeps them in stock around here for these engines so they have been on order for over three weeks. It’s prolly a log shot but I’m gonna change them anyway. Does anyone think it’s possible that there’s something wrong with the heads/valves. I know i done a leak down but I could have done it wrong. Im still open to any suggestions if any body has any. Also changed the air filter like stualaska said.
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 7:25 pm |
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Will C
MMT Sponsor
Joined: Fri Jan 10, 2014 1:16 pm Posts: 2107 Location: Gladewater TX
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Re: Prodrive fouling plugs
I use a snap on leak down tester. On motors with perfect valve seal i see 14-15% often. Not at all saying snap on is perfect. Yours at 11% says it worth a second look at your leakdown test , almost too good
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Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:03 pm |
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