Hey guys, I am looking for my first waterfowl boat and have learned A LOT today. I think I'm looking at a 1860 hull. Got excited about an Excel at the dealer but after doing some reading I am nervous about them. Have read a couple too many threads with issues on their quality and durability. Is this something that is less of an issue if I were to go with their 5086 .125" hull? Also read about their customer service being terrible, which really scares me.

Is there another option I should look in to? It seems that .125 5086 construction is a must, is this an accurate assumption? I have done some very limited reading about pods but the idea of a "hunt deck" I believe is something that would be nice.

What about Gatortrax? Seems like they are custom or semi custom with solid construction and pretty good pricing.

One more final big question, being as Mud Buddy is the same brand and Excel I have similar concerns with customer service. What other surface drive manufactures would you recommend? I did like the performance and power options with some of the Mud Buddy motors but obviously with performance comes less reliability. Are there other surface drive manufacturers that get 40+ HP?

What state are you in?

Michigan

Check out prodigy boats.

All of the surface drive manufacturers use the EXACT SAME Briggs Vanguard engine. Mud buddy just pre-modifies their motors. All of the modifications that mud buddy installs are available and you can do them to any motor. With that said, you are pretty much just deciding on a frame. Don't let the horsepower be the deciding factor because in the end, you can make that all the same, be it Gator Tail, ProDrive, GoDevil, MudBuddy, etc.

Gotcha on the motor.

I am seriously looking at Prodigy, Phowler, and maybe Gator Trax for the hull. Or any other highly recommended custom builder?

Besides the builder, I have a few questions on features. Is it correct that a rounded chine will handle better than square or am I misunderstanding?

Whats the story on the Gator Glide hull coating?

I liked Gator-Trax too but was more liking their website with lots of photos...

I then contacted the local manufacturers of mud motors to see who could build a custom boat for me.

Gator-Tail was willing and ready to fully customize my boat. I had already made my mind up on a motor and it seemed logical to stay with the same brand. Keep in mind, this is all before custom builders started coming out of the wood works.

Test drive, Test drive & test drive!!!

There are pros & cons to any boat. I'd choose a builder who has been in business for sometime that way in the event you have warranty issues you can bring it back to them.

Get a gator tail or prodrive motor they have reverse and the best customer service you can ask for. And yes reverse is a must on a mud motor.

When it comes to boats it's a good idea to match it with the brand of the motor or go with prodigy or another back yard builder so you can get exactly what you want for the conditions you run

With a surface drive and tiller steer do most guys go with "soft/collapsible" style blinds or with a hard blind? Obviously weight factors in to this as well as other things so what are the pros/cons?

Also not the first time I have heard the test drive advice...being as this is my first mud boat what exactly am I looking for? Also, this may be difficult as many of these boat builders are no where near Michigan. I would probably intend to make the trip to them to test drive before I order (especially if its phowler as iowa isnt THAT far) but it seems like it would be very difficult (or expensive and time consuming at the least) to test drive more than one of these brands...

Echo most of what has been said.

I think that with your knowledge base, and questions you have you would be best served by getting with a knowledgeable and helpful dealer and spending some time doing your research.

If you have a dealer (of any of the boats and motors) in your area, that would be a good start.

You have not described your running conditions and uses and that should impact your decision on both motor and boat including thickness of aluminum. Do you want a boat that "gets" you there or just something TO get there. None are speed demons, but some will go 12 mph with a hunt load and some will go 30 with a hunt load. What is important to you? Speed (which we typically look at as LOAD CARRYING CAPCITY with speed-a hunt load really impacts performance) cost money. No way around it.

As an example on the boat, where I run anything other than a very well braced 3/16 bottom boat and you will tear it up due to stumps and underground obstacles. Others who mainly run marsh and are trying to go thru vegetation and mud only might not need that.

Budget is also a big consideration. How much are you willing to invest in this.....

There is a night and day difference with outboards so it usually takes a while and a mistake or two before someone going from an outboard to a mud motor "gets it". They do not perform the same and you will have to change your paradigm to be happy with your choice.

Size of boat, weight distribution (huge and probably the most under appreciated element of performance), and load carrying characteristics are nothing like an outboard and it takes a minute to understand all that. Most go thru several boats and configurations (and much money) learning the differences. You can pay for your education or you can do your research and try to get close to right the first time around. You will never be completely happy as there is always compromise.

There is a lot of info on here about all of this, but it will take some time digging thru the crap to get to it.

As far as travel goes, a trip to So LA would cover all the bases for you. Gatortail and Prodrive are very close to each other and Gator Trax (who sells mud buddy) is not that far up the road either. A few days down there and you could knock out all 3 brands and boats and maybe visit a custom builder or two as well.

If Phowler is not out of the question for travel, then that wouldn't be a bad choice. They could help you pick the right boat and build it for you. Only drawback is that I think (and could be wrong) but they are a ProDrive dealer and so probably wouldn't be able to offer you info or test drives on the other brands unless they had something used laying around. I do think they sell (or at least were) sell the Copperhead, which is a smaller motor but an alternative none the less.

Having a dealer close to you would be a huge bonus if you are not mechanically inclined. Most everything can be done without going to a dealer, but that requires your time and mechanical inclination. THEY ALL NEED SERVICE AND WORK. PERIOD. You should think about how you will get that done. The Briggs powerhead used by all manuf is notorious for problems. Most are simple fixes, but someone still has to perform the work.

Good luck on your journey. Take your time. There are a lot of opinions and loyalties out there so take what you hear from anyone with a grain of salt. I personally am a "ProDrive" guy and don't think you can do better, but for every one of me there is someone else who has their brand of choice.

If you want, when you narrow your choices post up your thoughts and see what feedback you get. Some will be constructive and worthwhile and some will be garbage. Up to you to figure out which is which.

Thanks for all the advice, I know its difficult given my knowledge base is all on what I've read and have no "field" experience. I guess the good this about that is I havent owned an outboard duck boat either so as far as learning the expectations of a surface drive and mud boat I wont be comparing it to an outboard.

As far as budget, I know I am looking at spending a solid $20-25k depending how crazy I get with options. I am hoping to spend a good 4-6 months learning, researching, reading, etc and make a darn good guess at what will work for me. While I know there is some merit to buying used and running it for a while then custom building one I am still leaning towards new. I am getting married in 2016 so am saving cash for the wedding honeymoon etc whereas if I finance a new boat there will be less out of pocket and the monthly payment will be within a budget thats not a problem. That and I figure I better get what I want before my money becomes our money and the boss lady might veto a fancy new boat (she is hooked on deer, hasnt caught the waterfowl bug yet)


As far as running conditions I dont think underwater obstacle/stumps are going to be constant issues but will undoubtedly be occasional issues so I do want something to hold up to that without problems. I would say it would be close to a 50/50 mix of running shorelines on lakes and tucking into cover and then running more muddy/marsh type areas in the backwaters of bays or lakes

If Phowler isn't too far to check out I would definitely take a day over to see them. There is also a Gator Trax/Mud Buddy dealer in Fenton, MI you could probably set up a demo with.

Another thing to consider is do you absolutely need a mud motor for where you are hunting? If you can get by with a regular outboard I would recommend that. They are faster, carry a load better, and cheaper. Just a thought.

I have considered an outboard but my logic was kind of better be safe than sorry. I'm not too worried about going a few MPH faster. I guess my dilemma is I am just getting back into waterfowl so I dont know exactly the spots i will hunt yet just that I will find spots to use it (have a couple in mind and should be able to get some guidance) and do know that some spots I used to hunt were places an outboard couldnt get to the best of my knowledge. Basically, my thoughts on it was if the budget allows why not go ahead and do a surface drive that way if I need it I have it and if I dont NEED it in certain spots hopefully all im giving up is a little speed?

I'm coming from the outboard world as well, so I might be able to lend a machete to your intellectual thicket. Most of the hunting I did growing up was pretty much using the boat as a shuttle in hardwood bottoms where there was plenty enough water to float an outboard rig, and there were typically runs of several miles so a longtail wasn't needed and would beat the piss out of you for that long of a distance. When I moved back down here (Houston) I figured I'd just duplicate what I grew up around but with a modern boat and motor. Where I hunt now compared to where I used to hunt has changed a lot. More shallow backwaters and marsh than timber by far. I thought I could get away with the outboard, and the outboard rig that I have works, but it's a nerve racking and frustrating ordeal (I do a lot of push poling, walking/dragging the boat, and constantly worrying about the outboard). I am also on my 3rd water pump this season. After spending one particular morning dragging the boat for 45 minutes when the wind changed and left me stuck, the deal was sealed and I started planning for a mud rig once the season ends.

So to put it briefly, the mud motor may not be absolutely necessary, but it may be worth it for peace of mind. Especially when you're getting towed back to the ramp because you've burned up another water pump.

No worries. I started poking around on here 6 months ago when I was investigating these rigs after having several run-ins with mud bottoms and having to push the boat in the marsh. I learned a lot by just sitting back, shutting up, and reading as far back as was relevant. There's a lot of good information here, it's just very, VERY spread out (it also doesn't help that whenever someone asks a question, people just tell them to search it, so you'll sift through 50 threads trying to find one or two sentences in one post).

And yeah, you better be sitting down when you're signing the check

^^^what he said. I thought I was gonna catch a heart attack.

I'm a fan of the go-devil hull, they are heavy, but are tanks! I like gatortrax, but their hulls aren't the greatest on mud flats, but are tanks in flooded timber, ride smoother than go-devil in ruff water…… I have zero input on a surface drive, I run a long tail


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Take three or 4 days offfiring the week. Fly to New Orleans, rent a car and drive to Gator Trax, Pro Drive, and Gator Tail. Call ahead to each one and let them know you want to test drive. Explain you are from Michigan and are flying in. Trax is a dealer for all three motors. I own one of their boats and have a Gator Tail motor. I live my setup. I'm also having another hull from gator trax being built that my gator tail will be installed on. Also Bass Pro carries trax. You might see one there if you have one close by. After your trip to the manufacturers, get your belly full of some of our southern cuisine and go home and think about it some more. If you come down I'll take you for a ride in a 1850 Trax with a 35 GTR. I live 5 minutes from gator trax.

i have a 1660 GD w a 35 GDSD and i havent had the first problem with either the hull or the motor(178 hrs). i bought the motor and boat in may of 2013. I have given it hell. gone up and over downed trees, through stumps/submerged pilings, and lots and lots of mud/hydrilla. i have some small dents towards the stern of the boat but nothing too bad. i would say i like the width of the boat for gigging, fishing, and stability with a bunch of fat dudes in the boat.

I almost did the LA trip, but the more I read, the more it did not seem necessary. Instead, what I did was research each feature I was sure I wanted, and then determine which builders offered them. I refused to let geography be a limiting factor. There are no dealers in Virginia. Then I looked into and listened to how they handled long distance warranty claims. I added that with a little BBB research and basic google searching. Found only one boat mfgr and one engine mfgr that met all my criteria.

Your search may be broader, but be sure you pin down what you think you want in the rig, research it here, refine, continue. I spent two years doing my research! The kind of money it takes to buy a custom rig doesn't come easy to me, so I was willing to put in the time.

By the way, getting an exceptional trailer is worth the time and money too. Many folks shortcut that. Remember, you use a duck boat trailer in the worst possible conditions. It need to load easily, be mil spec tough, and brightly and reliably illuminated.

Lastly, there is a reason that the family of the bride pays for the wedding and the groom pays for the honeymoon. That way everyone can try to get their money's worth!

I am definately going to continue researching and whether it be at the factory or someone kind enough to offer a ride in their personal boat (had a couple already! Thanks!) i will be feeling them out. My biggest thing currently is the pros/cons of smaller vs larger operations. On one hand you get some better attention on sales and options etc with a smaller outfit but coming with that is the uncertainty of if they will be around forever vs a company established for 10+years. Could potentially be a big deal if something ever came up and could also effect resale value which does matter when dropping 20-25k (as much as i hope to make my first rig my last for many years, chances are i wont make all the right choices and will want something different one day). Any thoughts on this from guys that have owned boats?